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Oh, so these are good family men "totally innocent" who are wrongly on death row? Folks who never committed a crime, never hurt a flea, just got screwed by the system, huh? I mean, I might get grabbed tonight while watching TV and thrown in the slammer for multiple murders. The system is that capricious.
Oh, come now. Surely you're not suggesting that we ought to have a government that you lock you up and even execute you because, even though you're the wrong man, some people say you're "not a saint in waiting?
If you don't think that happens, check out the Innocence Project, for example. What about the Central Park jogger case, where they convicted those boys and after they'd been in prison 12 years another guy confessed to it and the DNA proved they couldn't have done it? It's easy to go down the litany.
It's not a crock and it's not a myth. Check this out:
Oh, come now. Surely you're not suggesting that we ought to have a government that you lock you up and even execute you because, even though you're the wrong man, some people say you're "not a saint in waiting?
If you don't think that happens, check out the Innocence Project, for example. What about the Central Park jogger case, where they convicted those boys and after they'd been in prison 12 years another guy confessed to it and the DNA proved they couldn't have done it? It's easy to go down the litany.
It's not a crock and it's not a myth. Check this out:
What about non-death row inmates? It stands to reason that if death row is loaded up with innocents, the regular prison population is too. Especially since capital murder cases are subjected to the highest level of scrutiny. So perhaps even more of those people are innocent.
If so, it does make one wonder who the heck is committing all these crimes (if not the folks in prison)? In fact, it almost sounds like you believe the MAJORITY of people in prison are likely innocent and/or were railroaded.
Either way the full implication of your contention is that lots of guity people are walking around free as a bird, and that the cops and DAs are either incompetent or criminal themselves. That, and/or that our criminal justice system is unworkable and should be abandoned.
One thing for sure, your position that most of the criminals are not in prison is one of the best arguments Ive heard for regular folks arming themselves to the teeth.
You bested me in your own mind. Proof? I haven't changed my mind about how I think it should be done. And you haven't done a good job changing anyone else's from what I can tell.
But, you read it how you want.
If you had a good counter-argument you would use it rather than incessantly running me down. That's how I read it.
OK, anyone still following this thread think Bullbear has "bested" me? If so, please respond with a simple "Yes". If not, please respond with a simple "No". If you think this has become ridiculous then please respond with a simple "2 cents".
Thank you and good night. My elephant juice awaits. And look that up. It's not pornographic.
In fact, it almost sounds like you believe the MAJORITY of people in prison are likely innocent and/or were railroaded.
Hm, where are you getting that idea? I haven't said anything about that but in my opinion most of the people in prison probably are guilty.
That doesn't change the fact SOME innocent people have been put on death row. My point is that if the government's going to kill citizens, it ought to be pretty dang sure that they've got the right guy. That means ruling out crooked experts, jailhouse snitches who've cut a deal to nail somebody else, false evidence, mistaken eyewitnesses, and bias in the system. If it takes a while to hammer all that out, so be it. That's the price of a free society.
If the fickle finger of fate lands on you, are you willing to give up all your defenses on the theory that you're no saint and you wouldn't have been arrested if you hadn't been up to something? That's the way they did it under Stalin and Mao, you know. Dictators love to run things that way.
Maybe there should be height/weight/strength requirements? Or perhaps you can personally pass judgement on who does and does not possess the physical presence to make them worthy of gun ownership. Please.
Only convicted felons and the mentally disabled should be prohibited from owning guns.
Plenty of non-diminutive and physically strong folks have used guns to be become a physical danger to the Public.
As usual, some always weigh-in with emotions other than logic. I never said anyone should be precluded from owning one. Not one person. What I DID say was that perhaps whomever buys one show a basic competency with that firearm.
Read what is there, not what you THINK is there. It makes all the difference.....
Its a really simple concept. Less Government. Less Government intervention in our lives. Get the Government out of our lives as much as possible. The Government is not here to protect us. It is a cancer.
I own three guns and have been around them for decades. I have used a gun, successfully, for self defense.
Dick Cheney was an experienced hunter, surrounded by other experienced gun owners. Training does not eliminate carelessness. In fact, the more comfortable someone feels around a gun, the more likely they may be careless.
Believe me, I am a life long Republican and believe in less government always. It's not a Right Wing or Left Wing issue, it's a common sense issue. I am ALL for gun owners rights and the ability to choose that right whether one side or the other likes it. It's just sensible to me.
I've owned firearms for the better part of 35 years, learned to use them 10 years prior to that.
What I am saying is that a basic fundamental proof that you know the most basic of things related to your firearm is not an unreasonable request. Because there are numerous folks who can't read between the lines and assume a few things, I will try to be exacting as I can which should limit the contradictory responses to a minimum.
A basic test might include that you know exactly which ammo goes in your gun. Don't shove a .380 in a 9mm because you heard it was a Kurtz/short round/short 9mm......9X18mm is different than 9X19 and for good reason...gun laws in your area, basic 20 question test.....Do you know how to load it. Do you know a safe way to hold it...not all the holds, a basic SAFE way to hold it.....
If you purchased a semi-auto with an external safety, is it a hammer block safety? How do you put the safety on? Off? Does your magazine have a trigger disconnect?
I'm talking about the most basic things necessary to be a SAFE gun owner. As much for your family as for the public at large.
I do not feel threatened by that. I do not think BO will break my door down and take my weapons...I do not think the left will then lunge for all that I have....
You give them too much credit if you do think as much...christ, these guys can't get taxes right and you really think....they are going to take away what now must be 500,000,000 firearms that they know about, away from everyone??? ROFLMAO!!!! They just aren't that smart. If you come over, bring at least a car with a large trunk for me as it will fill it up and I am just one peon in the sea of peons known as the US public.....
You would have as much success taking all the firearms away as you would getting all the illegals back over the border......good luck....hard to put the genie back in the bottle after she has gotten out....besides, I like Barbara Eden OUT of the bottle anyway....but, I digress.....
And for the truly paranoid thinking a law change would frighten everyone into coughing them up, I'm going to come back with a "Se Habla" when asked.....it just ain't gonna happen.....it's laughable at best....
But, that's just me. Now. Let's get back to common sense and logic. What I AM saying is that if you wish to CHOOSE to own a firearm, then that is YOUR choice. Lots of people have died to give you that right. Heck, some of them even lived long enough after serving to enjoy that priviledge. Even me.
However, asking that a person take a simple test to show the most basic fundamental understanding of how the "machine" works, what the laws are in your area and a few other SIMPLE things is fine by me. I feel no threat by that. And, after you have passed that simple test, you can buy all the similar firearms you want. Frankly, I think the test could/should be given at the shop in which you bought said firearm.
Buy it from a private dealer? Great, if you get caught without your simple stamp, card, it's a misdemeanor. Oh, and yeah, the stamp is good for life because I, like you, believe in less government but, there are a few things that aren't so bad.....like gun safety for all. You aren't advocating the removal or hinderence in ownership by asking for that. It's just NOT that big of a deal.
At least that's the way I see it. A USMC vet, lifelong Republican, who is on the inside right of 99% of the issues in AMerica.....just like the MAJORITY of america......it's ALWAYS been an inside right country. I'm no different.
In the meantime, buy if you wish, careful when you do and I urge you to get some training if it's your "first time". For the sake of you and your family, your legal protection, and the safety of the public at large, do it.
Believe me, I am a life long Republican and believe in less government always. It's not a Right Wing or Left Wing issue, it's a common sense issue. I am ALL for gun owners rights and the ability to choose that right whether one side or the other likes it. It's just sensible to me.
I've owned firearms for the better part of 35 years, learned to use them 10 years prior to that.
What I am saying is that a basic fundamental proof that you know the most basic of things related to your firearm is not an unreasonable request. Because there are numerous folks who can't read between the lines and assume a few things, I will try to be exacting as I can which should limit the contradictory responses to a minimum.
A basic test might include that you know exactly which ammo goes in your gun. Don't shove a .380 in a 9mm because you heard it was a Kurtz/short round/short 9mm......9X18mm is different than 9X19 and for good reason...gun laws in your area, basic 20 question test.....Do you know how to load it. Do you know a safe way to hold it...not all the holds, a basic SAFE way to hold it.....
If you purchased a semi-auto with an external safety, is it a hammer block safety? How do you put the safety on? Off? Does your magazine have a trigger disconnect?
I'm talking about the most basic things necessary to be a SAFE gun owner. As much for your family as for the public at large.
I do not feel threatened by that. I do not think BO will break my door down and take my weapons...I do not think the left will then lunge for all that I have....
You give them too much credit if you do think as much...christ, these guys can't get taxes right and you really think....they are going to take away what now must be 500,000,000 firearms that they know about, away from everyone??? ROFLMAO!!!! They just aren't that smart. If you come over, bring at least a car with a large trunk for me as it will fill it up and I am just one peon in the sea of peons known as the US public.....
You would have as much success taking all the firearms away as you would getting all the illegals back over the border......good luck....hard to put the genie back in the bottle after she has gotten out....besides, I like Barbara Eden OUT of the bottle anyway....but, I digress.....
And for the truly paranoid thinking a law change would frighten everyone into coughing them up, I'm going to come back with a "Se Habla" when asked.....it just ain't gonna happen.....it's laughable at best....
But, that's just me. Now. Let's get back to common sense and logic. What I AM saying is that if you wish to CHOOSE to own a firearm, then that is YOUR choice. Lots of people have died to give you that right. Heck, some of them even lived long enough after serving to enjoy that priviledge. Even me.
However, asking that a person take a simple test to show the most basic fundamental understanding of how the "machine" works, what the laws are in your area and a few other SIMPLE things is fine by me. I feel no threat by that. And, after you have passed that simple test, you can buy all the similar firearms you want. Frankly, I think the test could/should be given at the shop in which you bought said firearm.
Buy it from a private dealer? Great, if you get caught without your simple stamp, card, it's a misdemeanor. Oh, and yeah, the stamp is good for life because I, like you, believe in less government but, there are a few things that aren't so bad.....like gun safety for all. You aren't advocating the removal or hinderence in ownership by asking for that. It's just NOT that big of a deal.
At least that's the way I see it. A USMC vet, lifelong Republican, who is on the inside right of 99% of the issues in AMerica.....just like the MAJORITY of america......it's ALWAYS been an inside right country. I'm no different.
In the meantime, buy if you wish, careful when you do and I urge you to get some training if it's your "first time". For the sake of you and your family, your legal protection, and the safety of the public at large, do it.
Thanks for your patience.
+1 from the gun rights liberal (who grew up in an Army household surrounded by weapons dating back to Civil War and spent weekends at the shooting range with Dad and whose said Dad gave her a Mossberg 12 on her 12th birthday and a 38 Special the weekend she and a group of other ladies went on a camping/canoe trip and then gave her an old Ruger 9m semi when he heard she was moving to the big bad violent city).
+1 from the gun rights liberal (who grew up in an Army household surrounded by weapons dating back to Civil War and spent weekends at the shooting range with Dad and whose said Dad gave her a Mossberg 12 on her 12th birthday and a 38 Special the weekend she and a group of other ladies went on a camping/canoe trip and then gave her an old Ruger 9m semi when he heard she was moving to the big bad violent city).
You should see some of the heat from a guy I'm calling Rambo! I think the guy is wound a bit tight but hey, he can have his opinions too. He's the type that thinks everyone who doesn't own a 1st tier manufactured gun is less than human....and people wonder why we do background checks...sigh.....
It all seems so common sense and I don't need the government or society at large to explain that to me. Maybe my drivers license example was not perfect but, I think people get the point. If you want to own one (or dozens) great, it's a free country and you have the right to purchase as many guns as you like as much as you have the right to buy as many pairs of shoes as you like.
However, with a gun, I think we want to be a little more careful when we impart one on the public at large. Besides, I don't recall a size 12D hurting anyone except maybe that brow-beaten husband grateful his other half didn't find the rolling pin for a change!
Glad to see someone on the left see gun ownership for what it is. It's a choice. No harm, no foul and no judgement.
You should see some of the heat from a guy I'm calling Rambo! I think the guy is wound a bit tight but hey, he can have his opinions too. He's the type that thinks everyone who doesn't own a 1st tier manufactured gun is less than human....and people wonder why we do background checks...sigh.....
It all seems so common sense and I don't need the government or society at large to explain that to me. Maybe my drivers license example was not perfect but, I think people get the point. If you want to own one (or dozens) great, it's a free country and you have the right to purchase as many guns as you like as much as you have the right to buy as many pairs of shoes as you like.
However, with a gun, I think we want to be a little more careful when we impart one on the public at large. Besides, I don't recall a size 12D hurting anyone except maybe that brow-beaten husband grateful his other half didn't find the rolling pin for a change!
Glad to see someone on the left see gun ownership for what it is. It's a choice. No harm, no foul and no judgement.
Good comments.
Again, +1.
We like to categorize leftists and righties, etc, but we are all products of our own lives. I grew up in a hard right household. My life after leaving that household led me to the purty darn hard left. But the experiences didn't result in brain mush. As someone on the left side I can reassure the right there are a lot of leftists who are on board with things like gun rights.
We're really not so different. We're all People.
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READ, UNDERSTAND, THEN weigh in....
