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Someone else was already responding to Nairobi's comments. And when other cities were initially brought into the discussion, it was about the ones that are also considered centers of Black culture, not so much about which is a "better Black mecca."
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanti
The D.C./Baltimore region in my opinion is a little more cultured as far as Blacks.
And I agreed with that statement. I also read this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi
My general point is that, while living in Atlanta, I noticed a rampant pattern of young blacks who loved to put on airs, often in some of the most foolish ways. There were too many people there pretending to be something that they weren't. Now, there's nothing wrong with NOT being worldly, but I have a problem with people who try to give the appearance that they are, when they really aren't.
I agreed with that as well. The thread was already moving in that direction, so don't pretend like the foundation wasn't already laid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Maybe you and I Google things differently, but I don't type out full sentences or questions. I just Google key words because it increases your potential hits. And again, all you got by Googling that is a four-year old post here. It would have been something else had it been an article in the AJC, NYT, Atlanta Post, etc. But all you got was one hit. That should tell you something. And you couldn't even find that thread just by Googling the key words "Atlanta," "Harlem," and "Renaissance."
I think you're leaning on this way too hard to try to make a point. You're focused on semantics rather than the spirit and context of these articles (including the one in the OP).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
The issue is that you're limiting this to the past 10 years and only focusing on the entertainment part. This is a trend that goes back to the 70's which, at its core, has much more to do with longstanding Black political, civic, and business leadership, Black history, and Black institutions. The increasing Black media and entertainment presence in the past couple of years is obviously part of the evolution of the Black narrative in Atlanta, but that's what you're limiting the "renaissance," as you (and the poster who started that thread who doesn't post here anymore) call it, to. The article itself does no such thing.
I'm not limiting it to anything. In fact, the poster you alluded to didn't even do that. You need to read more carefully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffm1984
-Religion. Love them or not, mega churches are very popular around the country and Atlanta has some of the largest ones, especially with predominatly African American congregations.
-Education. Not only are two of the most elite Historically Black Colleges located in Atlanta (Morehouse and Spelman), but the city is very popular with black college students and college graduates.
-Lifestyle. Atlanta definitely has one of the highest populations of black professionals in the country as well as some of the wealthiest black neighborhoods.
When you read this, does it sound like he's limiting his view of Atlanta as the new Harlem exclusively to "the black entertainment presence?" Go back and read his post.
I think you need to stop basing your arguments on things you wish I (and perhaps others) have said and start focusing on the actual words I've been typing down. I've had two points this entire thread. First, if any city should be called a "mecca," it should be DC, not Atlanta. Second, Atlanta is way over-hyped. The whole "industry" thing just adds to the hype (and not insignificantly as evidenced by the article).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
No you didn't say those exact words, but obviously the references to Gospel plays and snap dances refer to some entertainers who have moved here in recent years.
How does this translate into "You said Atlanta is undergoing a renaissance due to celebs setting up there?" Granted, there was a bit of mockery in the statement, but it doesn't really get you to the phantom argument that you wish were a reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
And that's fine if you feel that way. Just don't set up a strawman and knock it down to say it.
What strawman? You claimed that I said there was this "notion" that Atlanta was undergoing a renaissance because celebs live there. I asked you to quote me on that and you couldn't. The NYT article comes much closer to making that point than I ever did. But having read the article again, I could see how it could be interpreted differently, particularly in light of the rest of your post.
And I agreed with that statement. I also read this:
I agreed with that as well. The thread was already moving in that direction, so don't pretend like the foundation wasn't already laid.
I think you're leaning on this way too hard to try to make a point. You're focused on semantics rather than the spirit and context of these articles (including the one in the OP).
I'm not limiting it to anything. In fact, the poster you alluded to didn't even do that. You need to read more carefully.
When you read this, does it sound like he's limiting his view of Atlanta as the new Harlem exclusively to "the black entertainment presence?" Go back and read his post.
I think you need to stop basing your arguments on things you wish I (and perhaps others) have said and start focusing on the actual words I've been typing down. I've had two points this entire thread. First, if any city should be called a "mecca," it should be DC, not Atlanta. Second, Atlanta is way over-hyped. The whole "industry" thing just adds to the hype (and not insignificantly as evidenced by the article).
How does this translate into "You said Atlanta is undergoing a renaissance due to celebs setting up there?" Granted, there was a bit of mockery in the statement, but it doesn't really get you to the phantom argument that you wish were a reality.
What strawman? You claimed that I said there was this "notion" that Atlanta was undergoing a renaissance because celebs live there. I asked you to quote me on that and you couldn't. The NYT article comes much closer to making that point than I ever did. But having read the article again, I could see how it could be interpreted differently, particularly in light of the rest of your post.
Why don't you take your beef up with New York Times if Atlanta is over hyped? No one in here has anything to do with it.
Oh, my bad my bad. These are Atlanta songs, though, right?
Donk
Move B*tch, Get Out the Way!
Holla at a Playa! (By a group called "Jim Crow." Gotta respect a group that knows its history).
Knuck til You Buck
Head Bussin'
Salt Shaker
Never Scared
24s
I Gotta Get Paid Tonight (a song about hoeing. Lovely.)
Shawty Freak a Lil' Sumtin
Who You Wit Get Crunk Who You Wit?
Fightin' in da Club
Money in the Bank
The Whisper Song ("Wait til you see my...")
You'se a H** (I really like this one)
Get Low (liked this one too)
Ain't No Mo' Play in GA ("We ready, we ready!")
Left, Right, Left ("A.T.L.A.N.T.A")
Bounce Like Me
Bojangles
Get Buck In Here
Girlfight
Let Me See the Booty Work
Snap Yo Fingers
My White Tee
Walk Like a Soldier
Throw It Up
Baby Daddy
P***** Poppin'
Crank Dat
Pretty Boy Swag
This is too funny. And these are just the songs I could name off the top of the dome.
Failed.. NO THIS IS SAD, ) how are you going to argue about intelligence and your post is fallacious, and your proud of it. I could post songs like pat your weave by DC rappers or post a the list DC rappers doing a underground remix to some of those same Atlanta songs. But then that would be childish of me. I just said to you, and you just replied to a post that said.
Quote:
You don't hate Atlanta you just feel like going around spewing stereotypes to bash Atlanta. Some stuff your saying is just random and off, like Atlanta is known for the stanky leg. Not only was that a attempted to appeal to ridicule, to water down and ignore everything blacks are doing in Atlanta. But the stanky leg is a dance that came from Dallas.
Do you know what's the appeal to ridicule fallacy is because I just pointed out your attempt and you came back to post a list more. I don't care about your list of dance songs Ohhhhhhhh dance songs. "I would love you to post statistics that support your claims that DC is head over hills over Atlanta. Your so eager to make a "come back" you missed the point of mentioning it, failed. Being fallacious is not a good look. Your aim to bash Atlanta is greater then your attempt to post something factual.
"The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning""
A break down would be Misleading Vividness to a Biased Sample base off a attempt to Appeal to Ridicule. And Anything we post back with facts you have a Special Pleading. Then Half of the same paragraph which mention you being fallacious you drop.
Quote:
Another attempted to appeal to ridicule is you said Atlanta is know for Travis porter, Travis porter is not even all that big for Atlanta to be known by them and there career just started. This pretty much set the tone of how much you don't know and what your trying to pass off.
Everyone read his post above then read the one below and think about how the bottom applies to the top, this dude can't prove anything, He just an upset dude going around spilling his emotions. When your post is fallacious and not providing anything your premise is good as air
Quote:
You are not posting facts with sources just making claims, and posting random succeful black people is not backing you up, You can do that with Seattle if you wanted too. DC, and ATL, have too many successful blacks to counts most which we would never know so it's pointless. What we do DC and Atlanta are among the top cities with African Americans success, black business owners, and educated blacks, and nothing you post can support your claim DC is head over hills above Atlanta, your just claiming that. I can tell you right now Atlanta has Black professors walking around then DC because of Atlanta having more HBCU's.
And to make it so bad some of those songs are still by artists not from Atlanta. And don't snip my post please.
That will change also. Really...with broadband, fiber optic communication channels and all......telecommuting could eliminate much of that headache.....but such would collapse the real-estate market for office space if people start using their homes as offices and leverage technology. Anyway....the least effecient form of commuting is suburb to suburb commutes to work. What if you lived in Forest Park and had to commute to Marrietta? When you have people commutting from suburb to suburb that is worst. Companies will relocate downtown. There will not be much of a choice because the government will give incentives to promote centralized moves.
I agree that telecommuting will become much more common.
However, I don't see how that will encourage people to relocate downtown. If anything, telecommuting makes it easier to work wherever you live.
Don't forget that the Atlanta and Fulton governments have been giving huge incentives (as well as applying massive arm-twisting) for businesses and residents to move intown for decades. That's what the TADs (Tax Increment Districts), Empowerment Zones, waiver of impact fees, New Market Tax Credits, URFA programs, Enterprise Zones, and all these many other projects are about. They've obviously had some effect but the overwhelming migration of jobs and population to the suburbs has continued.
Back to the main point, I believe it's a mistake to equate "black culture" with the goofiness of the hip hop scene. Why pick the most ridiculous stereotypes as cultural emblems? As I said earlier, a much better measure is the many blacks here who are doing well in medicine, law, business, academia and other mainstream social institutions.
I agree that telecommuting will become much more common.
However, I don't see how that will encourage people to relocate downtown. If anything, telecommuting makes it easier to work wherever you live.
Don't forget that the Atlanta and Fulton governments have been giving huge incentives (as well as applying massive arm-twisting) for businesses and residents to move intown for decades. That's what the TADs (Tax Increment Districts), Empowerment Zones, waiver of impact fees, New Market Tax Credits, URFA programs, Enterprise Zones, and all these many other projects are about. They've obviously had some effect but the overwhelming migration of jobs and population to the suburbs has continued.
Back to the main point, I believe it's a mistake to equate "black culture" with the goofiness of the hip hop scene. Why pick the most ridiculous stereotypes as cultural emblems? As I said earlier, a much better measure is the many blacks here who are doing well in medicine, law, business, academia and other mainstream social institutions.
Telecommuting was an extraneous point or tangential and not necessarily a cause and effect relationship between changes in residential living patterns. In fact, it may actually help reduce the pressure to move closer if the crisis gets really bad. However, I stick with my original thesis. The reason being is that the abundance of energy creates the outward expansion and hence the scarcity of energy will produce the opposite effect. It simply makes more sense to locate your economic and cultural assets close by and to build at higher densities. This is why cities that grew great before the automobile and gasoline dependence are built at much higher densities than cities that became great (large) during the era of the automobile, super highways and cheap fuel.
Hip hop is not a microcosm of black culture, and I certainly never implied, in anyway, that it was. However, hip hop IS a product of black culture. The thing about hip hop, original hip hop, is that it does give one a window into the urban culture of a particular city. Different cities have different flavors and styles. If you watch rappers from Detroit….you will learn a little about Detroit urban culture. If you listen to hip hop from the South…..you will learn something about Southern urban culture, etc. However, lawyers and doctors do not put out videos showing their lifestyle in a particular metro area…..lol. Thus, the fact that rap videos are posted or used, if that is what inspired your comment, its only because that is what is readily available for display.
Telecommuting was an extraneous point or tangential and not necessarily a cause and effect relationship between changes in residential living patterns. In fact, it may actually help reduce the pressure to move closer if the crisis gets really bad. However, I stick with my original thesis. The reason being is that the abundance of energy creates the outward expansion and hence the scarcity of energy will produce the opposite effect. It simply makes more sense to locate your economic and cultural assets close by and to build at higher densities. This is why cities that grew great before the automobile and gasoline dependence are built at much higher densities than cities that became great (large) during the era of the automobile, super highways and cheap fuel.
Hip hop is not a microcosm of black culture, and I certainly never implied, in anyway, that it was. However, hip hop IS a product of black culture. The thing about hip hop, original hip hop, is that it does give one a window into the urban culture of a particular city. Different cities have different flavors and styles. If you watch rappers from Detroit….you will learn a little about Detroit urban culture. If you listen to hip hop from the South…..you will learn something about Southern urban culture, etc. However, lawyers and doctors do not put out videos showing their lifestyle in a particular metro area…..lol. Thus, the fact that rap videos are posted or used, if that is what inspired your comment, its only because that is what is readily available for display.
You realize this sprawl thing isn't an Atlanta exclusive ,but Atlanta is embarking on some of the most ambitious projects to densify in the nation. Ask Houston or Tampa what they are doing.
You realize this sprawl thing isn't an Atlanta exclusive ,but Atlanta is embarking on some of the most ambitious projects to densify in the nation. Ask Houston or Tampa what they are doing.
Sprawl is inherent to growth post super highways and cheap gas, unless there are or were natural bondaries that prevent growth outwards, like in Miami, San Fran and New York city, but not limited to those examples. Hence, Northern cities have dense cores because they grew large prior to the super highways. Yet, their suburbs also demonstrate a pattern of sprawl. It all comes down to when an area grew.
Sprawl was another facet of our artifical economy, post gold standard, that boosted GDP in a totally unsustainable way. This is why, partly why, Atlanta is still not recovering like other areas. A good percentage of Atlanta's growth was based upon the "new economy model"....which has proven to be just a ponzi scheme.
Sprawl is inherent to growth post super highways and cheap gas, unless there are or were natural bondaries that prevent growth outwards, like in Miami, San Fran and New York city, but not limited to those examples. Hence, Northern cities have dense cores because they grew large prior to the super highways. Yet, their suburbs also demonstrate a pattern of sprawl. It all comes down to when an area grew.
Sprawl was another facet of our artifical economy, post gold standard, that boosted GDP in a totally unsustainable way. This is why, partly why, Atlanta is still not recovering like other areas. A good percentage of Atlanta's growth was based upon the "new economy model"....which has proven to be just a ponzi scheme.
Yes....I realize.
So how do you explain Detroit, Miami, Baltimore, Philly etc which are kind of worst off than Atlanta (in more ways than economically too)?
Or Cities similar like Dallas and Houston that are top performing in the country?
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) how are you going to argue about intelligence and your post is fallacious, and your proud of it. I could post songs like pat your weave by DC rappers or post a the list DC rappers doing a underground remix to some of those same Atlanta songs. But then that would be childish of me. I just said to you, and you just replied to a post that said. 
