Atlanta should move up to 8th by the 2020 census (Savannah: subdivision, airport)

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by jero23

Actually, they were called "Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Areas" (CMSA) by the US Census Bureau. However, the Piedmont Triad nor the Triangle were not considered either prior to 2003. Prior to 2003, both were just simply one MSA according to the US Census Bureau. The San Francisco Bay Area including San Jose and DC-Baltimore were considered CMSA prior to 2003 revisions to create Micropolitan Areas, Consolidated Statistical Areas (CSA), and Metropolitan Divisions category within the large metro areas. I remember working on a very large research project with the US Census Bureau on how and why the designations were changed or eliminated, and those 4 regions were case studies for those new designations creation.

You're right, they were indeed CMSAs before the current CSA designation. I was just missing a word.

[AtlantaIsHot]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

I think it's appropriate for the region to be a CSA; there's obviously interaction between DC and Baltimore but they are definitely very distinct urban areas with their own identities, and there's some thinning of development between the two (although that won't last for long).

Spot on observation. Baltimore doesn't "belong" to DC. Until 20 years or so ago it was virtually the same size as DC and still remains it's own urban center. It has it's own suburbs that identify with it and has it's own economy and commuter belt.

I do think CSA's exist, but it's a little ridiculous to lump the entire eastern seaboard together.

[Spade]

DC and Baltimore do not function as one. They have their own TV markets, own radio markets, own metro airports, etc. They share some things but not nearly enough as say a Dallas-Fort Worth. That's why I say mostly ,MSA's and UA's are the best one to use. Though I can hear the argument for CSA working for the Bay Area.

[JoeP]

DC and Baltimore do not function as one. They have their own TV markets, own radio markets, own metro airports, etc

Yes they have their on TV DMAs and that works, but their economies are intertwined. DC's jobs and the gov't are very much part of the Baltimore metro and BWI is very much used by residents of "DC" area residents.
There is no middle county between the metros. If Baltimore didn't exit, DC sprawl would have taken up Baltimore's southern counties and its northern ones would be exurbs.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Yes they have their on TV DMAs and that works, but their economies are intertwined. DC's jobs and the gov't are very much part of the Baltimore metro and BWI is very much used by residents of "DC" area residents.
There is no middle county between the metros. If Baltimore didn't exit, DC sprawl would have taken up Baltimore's southern counties and its northern ones would be exurbs.

And that's why they are a CSA.

[JoeP]

And that's why they are a CSA.

Yes, but what I'm saying is that while comparing MSAs is often fine and there are a few larger areas with more than one core city that are inappropriately compared on a MSA level which makes no sense. Maybe in more granular topics, but overall, DC and Baltimore are tied, just as SF is with Oakland and San Jose.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Yes they have their on TV DMAs and that works, but their economies are intertwined. DC's jobs and the gov't are very much part of the Baltimore metro and BWI is very much used by residents of "DC" area residents.
There is no middle county between the metros. If Baltimore didn't exit, DC sprawl would have taken up Baltimore's southern counties and its northern ones would be exurbs.

On the last point, there are a lot of areas that could say that-Atlanta and Athens, San Antonio and Austin.
Probably applies to the whole eastern seaboard from Boston to Washington.

[AtlantaIsHot]

When the ties are lower, a CSA is appropriate. DC and Baltimore are very much still independent of each other. Most people in the surrounding metros go to the core city they are a part of. Baltimore's downtown is strong and most of the Baltimore area is working in the Baltimore area. Same with DC, people in Greenbelt are likely going to DC or the surrounding metro to work, shop, eat, watch sports, see concerts, etc. People in Towson are going to Baltimore or the surrounding metro to work, shop, eat, watch sports, see concerts, etc. Baltimore is too large to ever be totally overtaken by DC.

Atlanta's CSA is more like a traditional metro than DC-Balt. or DFW because Gainesville with 35,000 people is simply not big enough to resist a much larger entity like Atlanta. It is being pulled in quickly. Athens is the most independent of the three, but it's not really large enough to resist either. Already a significant number of people are driving into Gwinnett to work/shop/eat/etc. All depends on how the job market plays out (and where).

[bu2]

Dallas & Ft. Worth are 30 miles apart, Washington and Baltimore 35, San Francisco and San Jose 41 and Cincinnati and Dayton 42. Athens is 59 miles from Atlanta.

[JoeP]

On the last point, there are a lot of areas that could say that-Atlanta and Athens, San Antonio and Austin.
Probably applies to the whole eastern seaboard from Boston to Washington.

They other cities are not as close and don't have the subdivisions on top of each other.

I guess you haven't been to the area, but Montgomery County MD ("DC") borders Howard ("Baltimore")
and PG county borders Anne Arundel in the same manner. Subdivisions and offices overlap. It's not like some other regions where there is a gap of space of mainly farmland.