Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,580 posts, read 2,487,377 times
Reputation: 1614
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531
The past few weeks have shown me Lovin is definitely a confederate apologist. I haven't said anything until now because I didn't want to jump the gun so fast. Must be hard living in one of the most liberal cities in the country where they would stomp on the flag.
LOL, fragments of an individual's truth are always revealed during key moments of conflict...
So much anti southern rhetoric here. Some of the posters saying bad things about Dixie show a location in the south no less. If you don't like it move to Boston. No one is going to force people to stop displaying the confederate flag. I have never seen more confederate flags flying off houses or off trucks than I have in the last few months. The more effort against it, the more people will mobilize for rallies like the one you see here. If they actually get the politicians to blast those figures off that mountain you will end up with thousands of angry people from all over the south traveling there to stand against it. One wingnut goes on a murder spree and is linked to the flag, now we have this growing tension because of this. The division in this nation continues to grow, nothing united about these so called United States.
I've lived here my whole life. And if not for Atlanta and a very select few other places in the South, I would certainly move to Boston, or any number of cities outside of the South. This is a beautiful part of the country, but, by and large, it's socially and politically poisoned.
Yes, celebrating a flag representative of treason and secession isn't going to unite us. And, whether you want to believe it or not, people gravitate to the CSA battle flag because it's understood to be a symbol of racism and white power. Why else would Dylan Roof claim it?
The South has more rural poverty, but poverty in the cities doesn't touch that in the northeast and Midwest. Racism is every bit as bad in parts of the north. Crime-Detroit and Newark anyone? Great cities-why are Austin, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando, Tampa and Miami always near the top of the list of growth. There are NO northeastern or Midwestern cities growing quickly. Maybe its because the south is simply a better place to live and better place to do business. Southerners are polite. There's not a friendlier big city than Atlanta.
The South is more down-to-earth, not pretentious, dynamic, newer and has a much better quality of life because its more affordable, friendlier and has better weather than anyplace in the north.
Sounds like you need to move someplace where you can be pretentious and prejudiced and people will applaud you for it.
The south actually has some of the highest rates of poverty in the country (10 Metro Areas with the Highest Rates of Poverty - 6 of the 10 are in the south). Atlanta itself has a very high poverty rate and one of the worse income gap disparities in the country.
I agree that racism is everywhere.
But I disagree in economic growth category. Many northern/northeast/midwest/great plans/far west cities are stable and have been for many years. The south was not as developed as those areas and there was no desire to live in the south for man years until recently when more people started moving there in the past 20 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal
Jazz, Blues, Country, Rock n Roll, R&B all started in the south.
American Square dancing, Swing dancing and dances during rock n roll era came form the south.
Different Cuisine soul food, Creole, Cajun, General southern, Most major BBQ traditions started in south.
The South is the only part of the country that the French, the Spanish and The English played significant part of developing.
Different cities architecture and cultures.
here's the problem theirs a lot to celebrate and to bring people together. But that not what any of this Confederate crap is...
It's like Germany has so much history the language, Cuisine, arts, customs, music and etc..
............. If some one walk outside with the Nazi flag it's the okey dot. With all German culture why would someone choose that as repressing of German culture it's not.
The Context is actually similar because both involve race and war defeat. With the defeated state trying to expand a form racial superiority.
So with all of southern culture why is people walking around thinking the Confederate flag is the best or a good way to represent southern culture?
A lot of people waving that flag are ironically ignorant of southern history. The Confederate Battle flag was never waved over Richmond during the Civil War also very ironic. The popularity of the Confederate battle flag didn't happen until the 50's and 60's, As a way by states leaders and racists to counter the civil right movements.
But the point I'm making People are being raised to believe the Confederate Battle flag represent the south which is erroneous. They're putting pride in the wrong thing. Everything about the Confederate Battle flag represents division. Therefore it could never represent The South.
I agree with most everything stated above but want to point out that for the most part all of the bold above came from black southerners, which is why it is kind of a slap in the face to constantly have the battle/confederate flag thrown up in our faces as a symbol of "southern pride." Blacks were instrumental in developing "southern culture" and American culture in general for all those above. I agree with another poster in that the greatest source of pride IMO of the south is its successes in regards to Civil Rights.
Status:
"Pickleball-Free American"
(set 6 days ago)
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,466 posts, read 44,108,506 times
Reputation: 16866
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
The south actually has some of the highest rates of poverty in the country (10 Metro Areas with the Highest Rates of Poverty - 6 of the 10 are in the south). Atlanta itself has a very high poverty rate and one of the worse income gap disparities in the country.
I agree that racism is everywhere.
But I disagree in economic growth category. Many northern/northeast/midwest/great plans/far west cities are stable and have been for many years. The south was not as developed as those areas and there was no desire to live in the south for man years until recently when more people started moving there in the past 20 years.
I agree with most everything stated above but want to point out that for the most part all of the bold above came from black southerners, which is why it is kind of a slap in the face to constantly have the battle/confederate flag thrown up in our faces as a symbol of "southern pride." Blacks were instrumental in developing "southern culture" and American culture in general for all those above. I agree with another poster in that the greatest source of pride IMO of the south is its successes in regards to Civil Rights.
A very well-considered post, unlike much of the drek that I've read here.
Haven't read the thread. I am sure it is similar to the recent closed one about sandblasting the carving.
This pro confederate flag waving spree we are seeing is not blatant racism as much as it is a subset of white southerners (and others) responding to the political winds of the day. Is there entrenched racism in this viewpoint? Yes. Is it the resurrection of the Klan? No.
The less attention paid to it on either side the less we as a state and a country will be torn apart. But I can't help but wonder if that is not the intent and we are all not puppets on a string.
Agree 100%. Although, I'm not sure it ever stood for anything but that, even before 1950.
As a life long southerner, I've heard the "heritage not hate" argument since I was born. Now, not to defend these people per se, but we in the south need a way to talk about the Civil War, slavery, the Confederacy, racism, etc that allows white southerners to condemn the bad without feeling like they are "selling out" their great great grandparents. The tension comes from people getting defensive and when people are defensive they react aggressively and progress, healing, etc is not made. I am NOT saying we need to coddle to white people's feelings, but if we want to make progress, people have to find a way to stop being defensive. Racism was part of the DNA of society in the 1860's. Can a white person in 2015 condemn racism and slavery without saying their great great grandmother was a bad/evil/racist person? Is that even possible? Implicit in saying slavery is evil is that their great great grandmother did evil things and probably never really regretted it or even regarded it as evil. If your father or grandfather lived in Georgia, Alabama, or Mississippi during the 1950s or 1960s and did not speak out for Civil Rights, what does that make them? How do you come to grips with the fact that your grandmother was a morally bad person? And then say that publicly? Easier said than done.
I'm not saying that we need to give white people a break, not at all. But what we do need is for the conversation to allow America as a nation, and the south in particular, to acknowledge the evil that was done, never forgetting, while at the same time reconciling with one another and moving forward. Just my 2 cents.
It wasn't significantly popular until to the 50's and 60's. It was use blatantly in the face of civil right protesters it did not become an obsession until this time period
I know the roots of the flags the Army of Northern Virginia it's also similar to Navy Jack my point was not ever the national CSA flag,
Wouldn't be more logical to actually use the national CSA? That didn't gain popularity by being used a symbol of hatred?
The Question a rise why are they so defensive of a flag that wasn't the national CSA, that wasn't popular until the 50's and 60's when racist used a symbol of hatred?
But my larger point it's symbol of division, That flag doesn't united southerns of all color, Even right now the people waving the flag right are doing it with antipathy. It's division...
Again it's like Waving the Nazi flag and say it's German heritage.
The official flag was the secession flag and represented all that was bad about the Confederacy. The battle flag represented the heroism of the soldiers fighting for their home against overwhelming odds. The use of the flag is not about secession or slavery. Thus, the official flag doesn't carry the positive connotations (obviously some have added negative connotations about the battle flag).
Agree 100%. Although, I'm not sure it ever stood for anything but that, even before 1950.
As a life long southerner, I've heard the "heritage not hate" argument since I was born. Now, not to defend these people per se, but we in the south need a way to talk about the Civil War, slavery, the Confederacy, racism, etc that allows white southerners to condemn the bad without feeling like they are "selling out" their great great grandparents. The tension comes from people getting defensive and when people are defensive they react aggressively and progress, healing, etc is not made. I am NOT saying we need to coddle to white people's feelings, but if we want to make progress, people have to find a way to stop being defensive. Racism was part of the DNA of society in the 1860's. Can a white person in 2015 condemn racism and slavery without saying their great great grandmother was a bad/evil/racist person? Is that even possible? Implicit in saying slavery is evil is that their great great grandmother did evil things and probably never really regretted it or even regarded it as evil. If your father or grandfather lived in Georgia, Alabama, or Mississippi during the 1950s or 1960s and did not speak out for Civil Rights, what does that make them? How do you come to grips with the fact that your grandmother was a morally bad person? And then say that publicly? Easier said than done.
I'm not saying that we need to give white people a break, not at all. But what we do need is for the conversation to allow America as a nation, and the south in particular, to acknowledge the evil that was done, never forgetting, while at the same time reconciling with one another and moving forward. Just my 2 cents.
People are products of their time. Condemning them on today's standards and values is not really reasonable. And before bashing southerners of the 50s and 60s, you should look at what Bostonians did as recently as 1974. ‘It Was Like A War Zone': Busing In Boston | WBUR
Northerners were pretty much as racist as southerners. The difference is the NIMBY issue. There were few Blacks in the north.
Agree 100%. Although, I'm not sure it ever stood for anything but that, even before 1950.
As a life long southerner, I've heard the "heritage not hate" argument since I was born. Now, not to defend these people per se, but we in the south need a way to talk about the Civil War, slavery, the Confederacy, racism, etc that allows white southerners to condemn the bad without feeling like they are "selling out" their great great grandparents. The tension comes from people getting defensive and when people are defensive they react aggressively and progress, healing, etc is not made. I am NOT saying we need to coddle to white people's feelings, but if we want to make progress, people have to find a way to stop being defensive. Racism was part of the DNA of society in the 1860's. Can a white person in 2015 condemn racism and slavery without saying their great great grandmother was a bad/evil/racist person? Is that even possible? Implicit in saying slavery is evil is that their great great grandmother did evil things and probably never really regretted it or even regarded it as evil. If your father or grandfather lived in Georgia, Alabama, or Mississippi during the 1950s or 1960s and did not speak out for Civil Rights, what does that make them? How do you come to grips with the fact that your grandmother was a morally bad person? And then say that publicly? Easier said than done.
I'm not saying that we need to give white people a break, not at all. But what we do need is for the conversation to allow America as a nation, and the south in particular, to acknowledge the evil that was done, never forgetting, while at the same time reconciling with one another and moving forward. Just my 2 cents.
Should have read this post before I commented above. Since I waxed eloquent on the previous closed thread concerning the mountain, just didn't have it in me to read through the whole thread. But this is the heart of what I have been saying. Excellent post.
People are products of their time. Condemning them on today's standards and values is not really reasonable. And before bashing southerners of the 50s and 60s, you should look at what Bostonians did as recently as 1974. ‘It Was Like A War Zone': Busing In Boston | WBUR
Northerners were pretty much as racist as southerners. The difference is the NIMBY issue. There were few Blacks in the north.
It is absolutely reasonable. Should we not expect them to grow and become better people? Besides, the cultural norms of the times should not preclude them from accepting equality and recognizing the rights of their fellow man. What are you saying? It was okay to be racist in the 60's because those were just the values of the time?
And if people are products of their time, why were there so many young people at this rally?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
