Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
As a Southerner I find this confederate flag waving troubling.
Folks can debate the Civil war till the cows come home. However, those of us who've lived here a long time know that the flag took on an uglier meaning in the 1950s when it was adopted as the banner of segregation, Jim Crow and opposition to equal rights for blacks.
That it symbolizes anti-black attitudes was once again made clear when these flags were secretively laid out on the MLK memorial. If they simply represented "southern pride," then why was it important to lay them on places that memorialize the most famous leader of the civil rights movement?
We've worked hard here in the South to move beyond that.
I Think we can say we've worked hard here in Atlanta to move beyond it. I first started hearing about this on the news on Friday. Not a single peep on the various social media I belong to (including this page). It's like Atlantans really just weren't into carrying this discussion on any further.
Which I am thankful for, because I really needed a break from the OUTRAGE!!1! this weekend.
I Think we can say we've worked hard here in Atlanta to move beyond it. I first started hearing about this on the news on Friday. Not a single peep on the various social media I belong to (including this page). It's like Atlantans really just weren't into carrying this discussion on any further.
Which I am thankful for, because I really needed a break from the OUTRAGE!!1! this weekend.
It's a tiny group of people compared to the population of Atlanta...and I would bet that most are from outside the metro area. I'm not even sure why it's newsworthy - I guess because of all the attention that flag has received lately. Who cares if this little ignorant group wants to get together and strut? I don't.
It's a tiny group of people compared to the population of Atlanta...and I would bet that most are from outside the metro area. I'm not even sure why it's newsworthy - I guess because of all the attention that flag has received lately. Who cares if this little ignorant group wants to get together and strut? I don't.
Yeah - I think the media was trying to have a field-day with it. It was on WSB and Fox5 at least. Not sure about the others. And Atlanta just looked at 'em funny. lol
Haven't read the thread. I am sure it is similar to the recent closed one about sandblasting the carving.
This pro confederate flag waving spree we are seeing is not blatant racism as much as it is a subset of white southerners (and others) responding to the political winds of the day. Is there entrenched racism in this viewpoint? Yes. Is it the resurrection of the Klan? No.
The less attention paid to it on either side the less we as a state and a country will be torn apart. But I can't help but wonder if that is not the intent and we are all not puppets on a string.
This pro confederate flag waving spree we are seeing is not blatant racism as much as it is a subset of white southerners (and others) responding to the political winds of the day. Is there entrenched racism in this viewpoint? Yes. Is it the resurrection of the Klan? No.
I believe there's a good bit of racism involved, although it may not be the firebreathing version of 1960s Alabama and Mississippi.
However, instead of screaming, "OMG, racism!" or "How dare you call me a racist!", folks would be a lot better off examining it and talking about it rationally. Less finger pointing, defensiveness and sensationalism and more actual thinking.
The official flag was the secession flag and represented all that was bad about the Confederacy. The battle flag represented the heroism of the soldiers fighting for their home against overwhelming odds. The use of the flag is not about secession or slavery. Thus, the official flag doesn't carry the positive connotations (obviously some have added negative connotations about the battle flag).
But The battle was for a state trying seceded defending slavery........... "fighting for their home against overwhelming odds. " was for a bad cause and completing unnecessary.
Also I you think maybe miss my point, it began as a popular obsession against Civil right leaders, it gave it life and popularity that it never had. So the popularity is rooted in adversity and prejudice.
I keep bring up Nazi Germany because it's a similar parallel..... You do understand that Germans thought of them as heroes during the time right?
Nazi Germany A war defended state on the wrong side of history that held racial supremacy
Confederate states A war defended state on the wrong side of history that held racial supremacy.
Germany people grandparents could been solders, but they aren't waving the thew Nazi German flag............ Nazi symbolism is actually illegal in Germany.
---------------
After War WW2 Germany was controlled the The US, The UN, USSR similar to "reconstruction" on the South. The difference is the US reconstruction on the south was a failure. After Lincoln death his vice President Andrew Johnson took over who was a southerner and a confederate sympathizer,
Unlike Germany which pretty much denounce Nazi Germany, consider it an ill and the wrong side of history.
In the South it was continue after the civil war to defend the CSA, it stead of accepting it as an ill and the wrong side of history. They saw themselves as victims and that did nothing wrong. Their become a Romanticism of the CSA, a weird hatred of the north, than Jim Crow laws were placed. Unlike Germany that learn from WW2 The South didn't learn from the Civil War until the 1970's, but rather became bitter. If people were bitter the concept that is "wrong" altogether never was grasp. This is why some consider that crap "heritage" but Germans don't embrace celebrating The Nazism.
---------------
The South is so much more than The CSA like Germany is much more than Nazi Germany,
Just like you can't water German culture and History Nazi German you can't water the South as the CSA. The Confederate flag does not represent the actual diversity in Southern history, . If someone truly had southern pride and trying to cerebrate southern heritage. They should know It actually stands against most aspects of southern culture.
As keep repeating it sign of division
Division of the US
Division on race
Ironically division of the South.
But The battle was for a state trying seceded defending slavery........... "fighting for their home against overwhelming odds. " was for a bad cause and completing unnecessary.
Also I you think maybe miss my point, it began as a popular obsession against Civil right leaders, it gave it life and popularity that it never had. So the popularity is rooted in adversity and prejudice.
I keep bring up Nazi Germany because it's a similar parallel..... You do understand that Germans thought of them as heroes during the time right?
Nazi Germany A war defended state on the wrong side of history that held racial supremacy
Confederate states A war defended state on the wrong side of history that held racial supremacy.
Germany people grandparents could been solders, but they aren't waving the thew Nazi German flag............ Nazi symbolism is actually illegal in Germany.
---------------
After War WW2 Germany was controlled the The US, The UN, USSR similar to "reconstruction" on the South. The difference is the US reconstruction on the south was a failure. After Lincoln death his vice President Andrew Johnson took over who was a southerner and a confederate sympathizer,
Unlike Germany which pretty much denounce Nazi Germany, consider it an ill and the wrong side of history.
In the South it was continue after the civil war to defend the CSA, it stead of accepting it as an ill and the wrong side of history. They saw themselves as victims and that did nothing wrong. Their become a Romanticism of the CSA, a weird hatred of the north, than Jim Crow laws were placed. Unlike Germany that learn from WW2 The South didn't learn from the Civil War until the 1970's, but rather became bitter. If people were bitter the concept that is "wrong" altogether never was grasp. This is why some consider that crap "heritage" but Germans don't embrace celebrating The Nazism.
---------------
The South is so much more than The CSA like Germany is much more than Nazi Germany,
Just like you can't water German culture and History Nazi German you can't water the South as the CSA. The Confederate flag does not represent the actual diversity in Southern history, . If someone truly had southern pride and trying to cerebrate southern heritage. They should know It actually stands against most aspects of southern culture.
As keep repeating it sign of division
Division of the US Division on race Ironically division of the South.
Even right now it means everything but unity.
.
The better corollaries are Germany after WWI where punitive measures lead to WWII and the Nazis and Iraq where punishment of Baathists lead to the Sunni rebellion and later ISIS.
Punitive reconstruction disenfranchising huge parts of the population of the South lead to the creation of the KKK-and yes, romanticism of the pre-war period. And probably to some of the Jim Crow laws taking away Black rights.
Most southerners didn't have slaves. Most individual soldiers were fighting to defend their homes and states. People had closer ties to state than nation in those days in the south. The causes of the Civil War can't be described in a sound bite.
I've noticed that some news outlets that covered it had a lot of close-up shots to try and make it look more dramatic. But if there had been the large crowds they were expecting, there would have been panoramic shots of the crowd. In other words, they treat this kind of thing like they're filming a movie and not a news event.
The better corollaries are Germany after WWI where punitive measures lead to WWII and the Nazis and Iraq where punishment of Baathists lead to the Sunni rebellion and later ISIS.
Punitive reconstruction disenfranchising huge parts of the population of the South lead to the creation of the KKK-and yes, romanticism of the pre-war period. And probably to some of the Jim Crow laws taking away Black rights.
Most southerners didn't have slaves. Most individual soldiers were fighting to defend their homes and states. People had closer ties to state than nation in those days in the south. The causes of the Civil War can't be described in a sound bite.
That's historic revision
1. extremist are extremist.....
To rebel against a country to start a civil war is an extremist, not to mention treason...
You can't say reconstruction made southern extremist groups like KKK when when reconstruction happen because part the country succeed and was willing to fight the rest to keep their believe states right of slavery, That beyond nuts that actually happen.
2. Since you brought it up The KKK was literally founded by confederate veterans in 1865 Yes in 1865, The Civil War itself ended the same year no time was wasted.
3. Reconstruction era of the south wasn't consider harsh it fact it's consider weak and a failure.
Lincoln second term election was during the war he choose Andrew Johnson a southerner from the opposing party for political reasons.
When Lincoln was assassinate Andrew became president. Andrew Johnson was a confederate sympathizer.
4. I never said most southerner own slaves I said was willing fight to keep slavery in the south.
Heck their was actually black slave holders before the war and black Confederate troops during the war as well. That doesn't make situation better. If doesn't matter your race the CSA represents the wrong side of history. The CSA was an act of treason in the name of state rights " to cough cough defend slavery"
-----------------
I brought of the Nazi comparison because clearly Germany was also on the wrong side of history but Nazism is not supported in Germany. Nazi symbolism is actually outlaw.....
After the Civil War rather then commending the CSA the south cling on to it then adopt Jim Crow. That's like Germans keeping discriminatory laws to Jews and then wave the Nazi flag saying it's heritage.
I've lived here my whole life. And if not for Atlanta and a very select few other places in the South, I would certainly move to Boston, or any number of cities outside of the South. This is a beautiful part of the country, but, by and large, it's socially and politically poisoned.
Yes, celebrating a flag representative of treason and secession isn't going to unite us. And, whether you want to believe it or not, people gravitate to the CSA battle flag because it's understood to be a symbol of racism and white power. Why else would Dylan Roof claim it?
I don't believe most people who gravitate to the confederate battle flag are doing it for racist reasons. Several reasons they do IMO. 1. Southern pride 2. a statement of support for states rights and small government or just as a statement of protest against the federal government 3. a historical interest in the civil war 4. simply to be a "rebel" 5. to protest political correctness
These seem to me to be the most common reason you see it, NOT racism. The racists are a small minority of people who display the flag. Of all the people I have ever known who flew it I knew NONE who did it to make a racial statement. The people who are flying it in anger and defiance in recent weeks are not doing it for racial reasons either, but rather to stand up for their rights to do it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Words of wisdom.
