MARTA transit plan includes 21 miles of light rail (Atlanta: tax, price)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by Moosehd

7 only has two stops and 6 has 3 stops. Shouldn't we want more stops there?

I prefer 6. Less tunnels, less expensive.

[Forhall]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

The only thing really stopping me from living in Tokyo is not being a Japanese citizen, or not being married to one. The COL is actually not bad compared to the "supposedly best places to live in the United States", such as NY, California, or Seattle.

Groceries are mostly cheaper. Public transit is so plentiful and great you don't need a car at all. Cell phones and utilities are a fraction of the US. Healthcare and college costs are much cheaper.

Housing is cheaper as well. Unlike in the US, there are no unsafe "bad areas" so people don't spend outrageous amounts of money to get into specififc addresses.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by autolycus25

I think we are talking past each other--and largely because I wasn't clear what I was thinking. I agree that there is zero chance the Clifton Corridor rail will go through Lullwater Preserve (I had a brain fart and was using the wrong name by calling it Lullwater Park earlier). I don't think it was ever seriously considered, and it definitely isn't one of the options now.

I was suggesting a shuttle bus/van that goes from one of the Clifton Corridor rail stops (e.g. the Emory to the VA hospital. It could go around campus to get there--using either North Decatur or Houston Mill-Mason Mill--but it would be faster and could run more frequently if it used the shuttle driveway that runs to the Clairmont Campus. It's been ~15 years since I was at Emory regularly, so I had forgotten that it is technically called Starvine Way and isn't just a driveway. When I was there last, it is a effectively private drive because of the gate that the CLIFF shuttles can open remotely. Eventually a circulator could completely avoid Emory and use the North Decatur-Clairmont station/stop.

It looks like Emory already runs a shuttle to the VA so medical staff can get back and forth--I'm guessing a lot of medical and nursing students, residents, fellows, and some surgeons and attending physicians work at both hospitals. It's the 1525-BA loop. I doubt Emory would ever run a shuttle designed for patients, but they might be willing to let the VA or MARTA operate one that uses Starvine.

Its a nice wide 2 lane road that is open only to Emory vehicles (mainly their shuttle buses). It looks like it was once a through road, but may have always been restricted.

Emory has plenty of ROW between the freight tracks, Starvine Way and the preserve that could be used for rail.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I prefer 6. Less tunnels, less expensive.

They made the point in another article that transit systems are trying to mix commuter lines with inner city lines with the result that their lines did neither well. You need fewer stops if you are going into the far suburbs to make it competitive. But you need more stops in the inner city to bring people closer to their destination.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I prefer 6. Less tunnels, less expensive.

Less RoI too.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by autolycus25

I think we are talking past each other--and largely because I wasn't clear what I was thinking. I agree that there is zero chance the Clifton Corridor rail will go through Lullwater Preserve (I had a brain fart and was using the wrong name by calling it Lullwater Park earlier). I don't think it was ever seriously considered, and it definitely isn't one of the options now.

I was suggesting a shuttle bus/van that goes from one of the Clifton Corridor rail stops (e.g. the Emory to the VA hospital. It could go around campus to get there--using either North Decatur or Houston Mill-Mason Mill--but it would be faster and could run more frequently if it used the shuttle driveway that runs to the Clairmont Campus. It's been ~15 years since I was at Emory regularly, so I had forgotten that it is technically called Starvine Way and isn't just a driveway. When I was there last, it is a effectively private drive because of the gate that the CLIFF shuttles can open remotely. Eventually a circulator could completely avoid Emory and use the North Decatur-Clairmont station/stop.

It looks like Emory already runs a shuttle to the VA so medical staff can get back and forth--I'm guessing a lot of medical and nursing students, residents, fellows, and some surgeons and attending physicians work at both hospitals. It's the 1525-BA loop. I doubt Emory would ever run a shuttle designed for patients, but they might be willing to let the VA or MARTA operate one that uses Starvine.

Yeah, that makes sense; sorry for the confusion. I suggested in an earlier thread that extending Gatewood Rd (which now dead-ends at the Yerkes facility) could join Clifton/Houston Mill to Clairmont by connecting to Southern Ln.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/VA...5!4d-84.311049

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by Iconographer

If he does, so be it. He's coming off like a petulant child here.
If anyone was shortchanged, it was the Clifton Corridor. They were slated for HRT in MARTA's original plan, but the plan was kiboshed in favor of Bankhead (still IMO a pretty shortsighted move).
Rail will come to encircle the Beltline, I believe; just not right away. Rome wasn't built in a day, Ryan.

Ryan is probably upset because Ryan knows the More MARTA tax is probably the only way most of Beltline transit becomes a reality in our lifetimes.

If you recall, the Beltline has been an idea with no hope of realistic funding for a long time. That finally changed when the More MARTA tax has passed. Everyone complaining about how long the Beltline is taking to become a reality...this should be fixed with the More MARTA tax.

The issue of funding the CC is not just a matter of what is a more worthy project, the issue is spending funds that are generated in and spent on projects in the CoA. The Beltline is a project that is solely inside the CoA and the overwhelming beneficiary is the CoA. It cannot rely on regional funds.

But what can rely on regional funding is the CC. It is a regional project as up until a few months ago, only two stations and less than 20% of this project was actually in the CoA. The CC was sold to voters as a regional project and this notation still exists in MARTA's literature on the project. Considering the overwhelming majority of the CC is in Dekalb County and outside of the CoA, this is a project that should not be propped up locally by the CoA alone. Emory's jump the queue move of annexation should have zero bearing on these funds.


Simply put, choosing the CC over Beltline segments (in regards to the More MARTA tax) is a choice to expedite the CC instead of building out the Beltline. It's a very short sighted decision. The CC will receive regional funding, the Beltline won't. There is no realistic plan for funding Beltline transit outside of this More MARTA tax.

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

Ryan is probably upset because Ryan knows the More MARTA tax is probably the only way most of Beltline transit becomes a reality in our lifetimes.

If you recall, the Beltline has been an idea with no hope of realistic funding for a long time. That finally changed when the More MARTA tax has passed. Everyone complaining about how long the Beltline is taking to become a reality...this should be fixed with the More MARTA tax.

The issue of funding the CC is not just a matter of what is a more worthy project, the issue is spending funds that are generated in and spent on projects in the CoA. The Beltline is a project that is solely inside the CoA and the overwhelming beneficiary is the CoA. It cannot rely on regional funds.

But what can rely on regional funding is the CC. It is a regional project as up until a few months ago, only two stations and less than 20% of this project was actually in the CoA. The CC was sold to voters as a regional project and this notation still exists in MARTA's literature on the project. Considering the overwhelming majority of the CC is in Dekalb County and outside of the CoA, this is a project that should not be propped up locally by the CoA alone. Emory's jump the queue move of annexation should have zero bearing on these funds.


Simply put, choosing the CC over Beltline segments (in regards to the More MARTA tax) is a choice to expedite the CC instead of building out the Beltline. It's a very short sighted decision. The CC will receive regional funding, the Beltline won't. There is no realistic plan for funding Beltline transit outside of this More MARTA tax.

Beltline.org might have to pursue help from P3's like it was looking into in 2012 after the TSPLOST failed. I'd also donate even though it won't make much of a difference.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

Beltline.org might have to pursue help from P3's like it was looking into in 2012 after the TSPLOST failed. I'd also donate even though it won't make much of a difference.

I would too, because I know it's so important to the future of Atlanta. But as you mentioned, P3s have been addressed in the past and they went nowhere. I'm not sure why, as this seems like a fantastic opportunity for P3s. But this and many other avenues of funding have been explored and it got nowhere.

With that said, I and no one else here should have realistic hopes for reliable funding for Beltline transit outside of this City of Atlanta exclusive transit tax. This tax is good for what, 25+ years? There will not be another transit tax passed for the city until the existing ones expire. And to the idea of getting this funding by The ATL.

Personally, I feel like all of us should be looking at the big picture when it comes to this transit funding, think Atlanta 20+ years from now. What will have a greater impact on the Atlanta of tomorrow, expediting the Clifton Corridor or building out Beltline transit? The answer is glaringly obvious. The Beltline concept as a whole is not just transit, it a plan for the inevitable growth that is coming our way.

This isn't a choice b/t building out the Beltline or building the Clifton Corridor. This is a choice between building out (most if not all of) the Beltline or expediting the Clifton Corridor.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

I would too, because I know it's so important to the future of Atlanta. But as you mentioned, P3s have been addressed in the past and they went nowhere. I'm not sure why, as this seems like a fantastic opportunity for P3s. But this and many other avenues of funding have been explored and it got nowhere.

With that said, I and no one else here should have realistic hopes for reliable funding for Beltline transit outside of this City of Atlanta exclusive transit tax. This tax is good for what, 25+ years? There will not be another transit tax passed for the city until the existing ones expire. And to the idea of getting this funding by The ATL.

Personally, I feel like all of us should be looking at the big picture when it comes to this transit funding, think Atlanta 20+ years from now. What will have a greater impact on the Atlanta of tomorrow, expediting the Clifton Corridor or building out Beltline transit? The answer is glaringly obvious. The Beltline concept as a whole is not just transit, it a plan for the inevitable growth that is coming our way.

This isn't a choice b/t building out the Beltline or building the Clifton Corridor. This is a choice between building out (most if not all of) the Beltline or expediting the Clifton Corridor.

I don't find it 'glaringly obvious' at all. The Clifton Corridor is the largest employment center in the metro not being served by rail, and is a gateway to the most rapidly densifying quadrant in the metro. This opposed to an only recently realized pipe dream. Priorities. It may not be as 'sexy' as the Beltline in the eyes of many, but it is IMO the wiser choice at this point.