11-20-2018, 07:38 PM
Location: East Point
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the only problem is that a lot of those existing rail lines are too congested to add any kind of commuter rail, especially those in NW atlanta. i can't find the map but CSX released something a while back that essentially showed those lines were maxed out as it is.
any kind of expansion along those corridors is going to require the state of georgia investing in purchasing additional ROW and building more tracks. and that's the thing that's been stopping commuter rail to chattanooga and points farther. so, considering GA eventually does this, do we really want to dedicate that new rail space to local transportation instead of commuter rail?
i really liked bu2's idea earlier of running this buckhead tunnel to cobb idea in together with the clifton corridor as a single HRT line. or maybe an LRT line with separated right of way (no running in traffic). anybody have any interest in those two being consolidated as a single project?
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i have to say i also really like the idea of running an LRT line in the same corridor that the marietta interurban trolley went (fourthwarden's "vinings" option), because it goes through all the historic downtown areas through cobb (vinings, smyrna, marietta, kennesaw, even acworth and cartersville are on this line) but then again you need separated ROW because the line is maxed out. as kind of a 'beltline' for cobb and a resurrection of the old trolley line, it seems like a much nicer option than ugly ass cobb parkway. it would be a line that people would actually enjoy riding and might attract people who hate riding the subway.
edit: cqholt, this is the line you proposed with LRT instead of using the rail line so i think we're thinking along the same lines. then again LRT would require building additional ROW, too, so i guess there's not really an easy solution here.
Last edited by bryantm3; 11-20-2018 at 08:03 PM ..
11-20-2018, 07:41 PM
Location: Seattle, WA
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It should also be pointed out that cqholt's plan perfectly compliments the official MARTA City of Atlanta funded expansion plan:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...244884176&z=15
-This line would serve as the transit for the NW Beltline, which is the only section missing from the map there
-This line would serve as the transit for the Clifton Corridor which is only partially funded, saving a lot of costs there
-The Northside Dr BRT would connect nicely with the Berkely Park/Northside Dr station
-The Moores Mill frequent bus corridor would connect nicely with the Moores Mill station
-The Peachtree Rd ART would connect nicely with the Brookwood/Peachtree Park station
-The NE Beltline LRT could use Armour and save some cost and distance, and be a station designed with LRT in mind
11-20-2018, 08:03 PM
Location: Decatur, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
primaltech
Nice. I think that train right there would make a beautiful mass transit solution for Cobb County. 60hz AC overhead power like Denver, except a lot more sharing ROW with freight than them, which shouldn't be a problem with more tracks added, and whatever other GPS technologies are out there now, with trains.
No advanced technology is necessary, the existing signaling system plus the now-required positive train control overlay is sufficient. The garbage PTC system that CSX and the other Class-1s chose does use GPS, but has little to do with increasing capacity. The only issue with sharing the RoW is one of crash standards, but we've been building compliant trains for decades, and the FRA has newer standards that allow lighter off the shelf European designs to operate with freight trains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bryantm3
the only problem is that a lot of those existing rail lines are too congested to add any kind of commuter rail, especially those in NW atlanta. i can't find the map but CSX released something a while back that essentially showed those lines were maxed out as it is.
The only report from the past few years was one by CSX which showed that particular corridor as having excess capacity. That is even more the case now that CSX has scaled back its network, particularly through Georgia. I don't know all the trains on the Cobb line, but a good example is the Emory-Tucker-Athens line. It used to host probably 12+ through train pairs per day, plus all the locals and random coal/aggregate/ethanol/etc. trains. Now, it has 4 train pairs per day, plus the locals and random trains. The same sort of reduction has happened in Cobb. Now the NS line through Gwinnett and the one to Austell? Different story, but capacity improvements to allow passenger rail aren't out of reach by any stretch.
Quote:
any kind of expansion along those corridors is going to require the state of georgia investing in purchasing additional ROW and building more tracks. and that's the thing that's been stopping commuter rail to chattanooga and points farther. so, considering GA eventually does this, do we really want to dedicate that new rail space to local transportation instead of commuter rail?
The RoW is plenty wide enough to add new tracks to enhance capacity without having to dedicate an entirely separate set of tracks.
11-20-2018, 08:22 PM
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We can debate the details of the route, but the bigger question that needs to be answered first is:
Where does the money come from?
11-20-2018, 08:39 PM
Location: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jsvh
We can debate the details of the route, but the bigger question that needs to be answered first is:
Where does the money come from?
I think Cobb County should implement a 1% sales tax (bringing us to a reasonable 7%), to join MARTA and pay for MARTA commuter rail (and enhanced MARTA bus service) in Cobb, as well as whatever track in Atlanta necessary to connect the line over to the Red/Gold line, and any station improvements needed to accommodate it at whatever station it connects with. Up to and including the construction of an Armour MARTA infill station.
If the line were to be extended to Woodstock, Holly Springs, and Canton, then Cherokee County would need to raise their own county sales tax and pay for that segment. They have this right, as per the ATL transit bill.
Cherokee can't join MARTA and can't legally get MARTA heavy rail, but they should be able to contract with.
And as far as other stations on the line inside Atlanta (such as Moores Mill, Northside Dr, etc), I see two possible ways of funding. One would be privately funded by developers/businesses in the area of the station, and the other would be using excess funds/savings from the More MARTA half penny expansion tax.
I mean, they're going to build bus transit centers at Moores Mill, and one at Northside Dr near I-75 anyway, so might as well make those bus and train stations, it wouldn't cost that much extra. In my opinion Cobb taxes should fund the line itself.
DeKalb County .5% MARTA expansion tax would fund the segment of the line and stations in their county, outside of CoA. So that would be the N Druid Hills/Northlake/Tucker stations, on cqholt's proposal.
11-20-2018, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jsvh
We can debate the details of the route, but the bigger question that needs to be answered first is:
Where does the money come from?
The great thing about community activism is although it would be fantastic for us to come up with funding sources, we are not elected officials nor the ones responsible for making it happen. That said, we can provide a vision (a route or a few alternatives) and get community buy-in. IMO, community buy-in will require more than Piedmont hospital as a destination.
While metro Atlanta connectivity is good, we can bolster support with a few infill stations that will have a surrounding community and act as destinations others would want to visit.
11-20-2018, 08:50 PM
Location: Seattle, WA
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The thing about commuter rail is it's so cheap, and the stations are extremely simple and cheap. I mean, it's just basically a concrete platform for people to board the train.
That's why I think, Cobb should fund the line and the track since it would connect our county with the main heavy rail line that connects the main parts of the city and the airport, and any additional stations on the line in Atlanta could easily be funded privately or with the More MARTA sales tax, or by whatever other means. Because they would not cost much at all.
11-20-2018, 09:03 PM
Location: Seattle, WA
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This spot for example:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8119.../data=!3m1!1e3
If there were 2 tracks there instead of 1, and commuter rail trains going by on the way in and out of Armour, all of that funded by taxes in Cobb and Cherokee, then I would think it would be really easy for local businesses (such as Piedmont Hospital, right there), and developers who want to replace old stuff and build better new stuff, to fund a very simple platform station, right there on that straight segment, east of the road, south of Fresh Market.
Plus like a short concrete ramp up to the sidewalk. It would not be expensive, and the local business community would benefit a ton from having the station. It just seems like they could find a way to fund it.
11-21-2018, 08:28 AM
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read
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Reputation: 5703
Quote:
Originally Posted by
primaltech
This spot for example:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8119.../data=!3m1!1e3
If there were 2 tracks there instead of 1, and commuter rail trains going by on the way in and out of Armour, all of that funded by taxes in Cobb and Cherokee, then I would think it would be really easy for local businesses (such as Piedmont Hospital, right there), and developers who want to replace old stuff and build better new stuff, to fund a very simple platform station, right there on that straight segment, east of the road, south of Fresh Market.
Plus like a short concrete ramp up to the sidewalk. It would not be expensive, and the local business community would benefit a ton from having the station. It just seems like they could find a way to fund it.
Leveraging greenfields or brownfield TOD redevelopment will help fund the system, similar to what BrightLine is doing in Florida.
11-21-2018, 08:29 AM
24,097 posts, read
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Reputation: 12932
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Street Advocate
I disagree. More than half the area is an underdeveloped industrial corridor. The homes nearby are some of the cheaper condos in the northern part of the city and from a buckhead perspective, cheaper homes and not in the best school district. The area had more room for development than the Tilford TOD you suggest (which is also stymied by Inman hard). It also encourages walkability adjacent existing walkable neighborhoods, supporting intown density/growth. Atlanta needs more interconnected neighborhoods, not more newly created and isolated neighborhoods. Transit accessible or not, more of our neighborhoods need to be cohesive.
That corridor is one of the prime ones in the city for redevelopment. There is a lot of underutilized industrial property. Its already changing, albeit slowly. With the closing of the rail yard, it will pick up.
What is also different about this area than the east side is that there is actually space to improve transit and roads to handle the increased population.
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Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)