I went to GDOT's Open House for I-285 Express Lanes (Atlanta: living, prices)
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GDOT criticized for lack of traffic in new video and lack of transit in $11B I-285 toll lane plan
The Georgia Department of Transportation is being criticized for a noticeable lack of traffic along a frequently congested stretch of highway in a new video that visualizes the agency's proposed plan for tolled express lanes across the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter.
GDOT is also being criticized for the lack of a mass transit component in a high-profile I-285 Express Lanes project that will have a price tag of at least $11 billion for construction and 20 years of operation and maintenance costs.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
The Georgia Department of Transportation is being criticized for a noticeable lack of traffic along a frequently congested stretch of highway in a new video that visualizes the agency's proposed plan for tolled express lanes across the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter.
GDOT is also being criticized for the lack of a mass transit component in a high-profile I-285 Express Lanes project that will have a price tag of at least $11 billion for construction and 20 years of operation and maintenance costs.
I know I'll get a well thought out response from you B2R so that is why my question is directed at you. It seems to me, that a huge part of Atlanta's traffic problem could be solved by GDOT finally realizing that about 1/2 the problem is not local but thru-traffic. While I don't drive the cities roads daily by virtue of living quite a ways away, I have driven Atlanta traffic for over 45 years now and it is usually in the capacity of passing through. And while I have no doubt that some of the out-of-state plates I see are actually visitors to the city itself, it seems that most of those plates are headed somewhere else. Specifically Florida bound. Why wouldn't it be more reasonable to build with that kind of money a way to have a true bypass around Atlanta? Getting the traffic that really has no reason to be near the city core seems to me to be the only solution......
I know I'll get a well thought out response from you B2R so that is why my question is directed at you. It seems to me, that a huge part of Atlanta's traffic problem could be solved by GDOT finally realizing that about 1/2 the problem is not local but thru-traffic. While I don't drive the cities roads daily by virtue of living quite a ways away, I have driven Atlanta traffic for over 45 years now and it is usually in the capacity of passing through. And while I have no doubt that some of the out-of-state plates I see are actually visitors to the city itself, it seems that most of those plates are headed somewhere else. Specifically Florida bound. Why wouldn't it be more reasonable to build with that kind of money a way to have a true bypass around Atlanta? Getting the traffic that really has no reason to be near the city core seems to me to be the only solution......
I too would much prefer an outer perimeter to those atrocious flyovers and elevated Express lanes I.E. Highways in the sky they intend to absolutely WRECK I-285 with. Previous attempts at building an outer perimeter failed... ...badly. Mainly the Northern Arc which eventually could have become apart of a much larger outer perimeter.
What should really be noted about this project though and the bogus video of showing no traffic on I-285 is that it has absolutely nothing to do with solving traffic problems. That is not the goal. If you notice the entire project is focused upon the northern crescent of the metro. The real agenda is to provide commuters more reliable (tolled) means of reaching certain job hubs such as Permiter / Dunwoody, Cumberland, and especially Alpharetta. It is focused directly to influence their growth.
While an additional perimeter would definitely help traffic on I-285, I-75 and I-85, it wouldnt as directly influence those vicinities and may actually cause another problem, competition, because now more areas of the metro are easily accessible as establishments for housing or employment hubs. This is something DFW is dealing with given the entire metroplex is readily accessible by highway. While its convenient, it may make it more difficult for certain job nodes to continue to attract business.
The other issues about an outer perimeter is any segment or section of it within a considerable range if the Blue Ridge region will auto-fail in a massive political backlash, as in so bad certain politicians may ruin their chance of reelection so there is that too. That and other issues such as certain commercial nodes being heavily dependent upon the thru traffic that passes through their city (as seen in Stockbridge / McDonough which is why they made toll lanes rather than widening the road.)
IMO the real answer to this issue is transit and dedicated truck lanes with limited exits within the metro.
I know I'll get a well thought out response from you B2R so that is why my question is directed at you. It seems to me, that a huge part of Atlanta's traffic problem could be solved by GDOT finally realizing that about 1/2 the problem is not local but thru-traffic. While I don't drive the cities roads daily by virtue of living quite a ways away, I have driven Atlanta traffic for over 45 years now and it is usually in the capacity of passing through. And while I have no doubt that some of the out-of-state plates I see are actually visitors to the city itself, it seems that most of those plates are headed somewhere else. Specifically Florida bound. Why wouldn't it be more reasonable to build with that kind of money a way to have a true bypass around Atlanta? Getting the traffic that really has no reason to be near the city core seems to me to be the only solution......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
The other issues about an outer perimeter is any segment or section of it within a considerable range if the Blue Ridge region will auto-fail in a massive political backlash, as in so bad certain politicians may ruin their chance of reelection so there is that too. That and other issues such as certain commercial nodes being heavily dependent upon the thru traffic that passes through their city (as seen in Stockbridge / McDonough which is why they made toll lanes rather than widening the road.)
Need4Camaro says it well when talking about the widespread political unpopularity of the Outer Perimeter concept.
The State of Georgia tried doggedly to push through the Outer Perimeter concept in the late 1990's and early 2000's, but was thoroughly smacked down when Governor Roy Barnes (who strongly backed the Outer Perimeter concept) lost his re-election bid in 2002.
Barnes lost in large part because of widespread public opposition to the proposed Outer Perimeter superhighway and the real and perceived issues with his administration's lies and corruption surrounding a road proposal that was deeply unpopular with the Georgia public... That's particularly in the metro Atlanta outer suburbs and exurbs where the road was proposed to be built but was largely unwanted by the locals.
And even though the unpopular erstwhile proposed road was not on the ballot that year and had officially been cancelled for more than 9 years, Georgia voters (and particularly metro Atlanta voters) basically again smacked down the Outer Perimeter proposal when they in 2012 rejected the highly-controversial (and extremely unpopular) proposed metro Atlanta T-SPLOST by a nearly 2-1 margin in large part because of rumors that the referendum was a back door way to fund a resurrected Outer Perimeter.
(… Metro Atlanta voters thought that the road was being resurrected through the 2012 T-SPLOST because of an unrelated road construction project (the Sugarloaf Parkway extension in Gwinnett County) that was proposed to be built in the abandoned right-of-way of the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc with T-SPLOST funds.)
Because Georgia voters (particularly metro Atlanta voters) had a conniption fit both when the road was a serious proposal and 10 years later when they mistakenly thought that the road was being resurrected, no Georgia politicians will touch the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc proposal (or any road construction proposal that may even remotely resemble it) with a 10-foot-pole.
Georgia (GDOT) officials are basically trying to compensate for not being able to build an Outer Perimeter by proposing to expand the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter with tolled express lanes... A proposal that (not surprisingly) already looks to be attracting some significant opposition from residents and local politicians in cities across the I-285 Top End Perimeter corridor, including in Dunwoody, Sandy Springs, Brookhaven, Chamblee and Doraville.
There are two components to this project that don't stand out but I really like.
First, the Peachtree Industrial/285 interchange is getting some badly needed improvements. All the ramps onto and off of 285W are getting upgraded, especially the dangerous PI south-285W sharp right curve, which will be much more gradual.
Second, there will be a half-diamond from the 285 express lanes to New Peachtree Rd very near the Doraville station. Even if it is from tolled lanes, this will make Doraville MARTA more accessible from I-85 S. It could also serve as the exit for future BRT up 85 and down the East Wall of 285.
To be clear, BRT is nowhere in this project, but it's a possibility I see opened here.
Need4Camaro says it well when talking about the widespread political unpopularity of the Outer Perimeter concept.
The State of Georgia tried doggedly to push through the Outer Perimeter concept in the late 1990's and early 2000's, but was thoroughly smacked down when Governor Roy Barnes (who strongly backed the Outer Perimeter concept) lost his re-election bid in 2002.
Barnes lost in large part because of widespread public opposition to the proposed Outer Perimeter superhighway and the real and perceived issues with his administration's lies and corruption surrounding a road proposal that was deeply unpopular with the Georgia public... That's particularly in the metro Atlanta outer suburbs and exurbs where the road was proposed to be built but was largely unwanted by the locals.
And even though the unpopular erstwhile proposed road was not on the ballot that year and had officially been cancelled for more than 9 years, Georgia voters (and particularly metro Atlanta voters) basically again smacked down the Outer Perimeter proposal when they in 2012 rejected the highly-controversial (and extremely unpopular) proposed metro Atlanta T-SPLOST by a nearly 2-1 margin in large part because of rumors that the referendum was a back door way to fund a resurrected Outer Perimeter.
(… Metro Atlanta voters thought that the road was being resurrected through the 2012 T-SPLOST because of an unrelated road construction project (the Sugarloaf Parkway extension in Gwinnett County) that was proposed to be built in the abandoned right-of-way of the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc with T-SPLOST funds.)
Because Georgia voters (particularly metro Atlanta voters) had a conniption fit both when the road was a serious proposal and 10 years later when they mistakenly thought that the road was being resurrected, no Georgia politicians will touch the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc proposal (or any road construction proposal that may even remotely resemble it) with a 10-foot-pole.
Georgia (GDOT) officials are basically trying to compensate for not being able to build an Outer Perimeter by proposing to expand the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter with tolled express lanes... A proposal that (not surprisingly) already looks to be attracting some significant opposition from residents and local politicians in cities across the I-285 Top End Perimeter corridor, including in Dunwoody, Sandy Springs, Brookhaven, Chamblee and Doraville.
And admittedly as much as I believe Atlanta needs a outer perimeter, and as much advocate as I am for highways in certain aspects, I am very much against these lanes. I get that its really their only trick in the bucket at this point but Atlanta is beyond the point where these lanes will assist the majority for any measurable length of time in its growth. Now, Atlanta needs to grow and shape its infrastructure in a more innovative method with mass-transit while doing their best to maximize both coverage and usage while minimizing (but not CHOKING) automobile travel. Transit Diversity so to speak...The road infrastructure needed to sooth the pain is impractical for Atlanta metro in a political, geographical and even financial means at this point... I'd rather see them plan for the future inhabitants in such a means that infrastructure wont become so quickly obsolete.
And admittedly as much as I believe Atlanta needs a outer perimeter, and as much advocate as I am for highways in certain aspects, I am very much against these lanes. I get that its really their only trick in the bucket at this point but Atlanta is beyond the point where these lanes will assist the majority for any measurable length of time in its growth. Now, Atlanta needs to grow and shape its infrastructure in a more innovative method with mass-transit while doing their best to maximize both coverage and usage while minimizing (but not CHOKING) automobile travel. Transit Diversity so to speak...The road infrastructure needed to sooth the pain is impractical for Atlanta metro in a political, geographical and even financial means at this point... I'd rather see them plan for the future inhabitants in such a means that infrastructure wont become so quickly obsolete.
These lanes can be controlled will tolls rates which will always prevent them from filling up & grinding to a halt like general purpose lanes.
This control will extend their usefulness of 45 mph+ travel for decades to come so that they will always function as designed.
They will fulfill their mission of giving us one other option besides being at the mercy of the crowds and backups that lower the quality of life now in Atlanta.
They are able to provide a predictable travel time and constant 45mph+ speeds by raising prices until enough people are dissuaded from using them at peak times.
They don't help the overall under-capacity of our road network for a soon-to-be 8 million residents plus the tens of thousands Southeast out-of-staters passing through each day.
And they are ruining what little natural beauty our freeway corridors had (my biggest concern)…
But because they won't fill up and mire down like all lanes eventually do....
I think we are better off with them than without....
At this point, Atlanta is pretty-much doomed to the forces/effects we experience now.
These lanes are smarter than just adding more free lanes.
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GDOT criticized for lack of traffic in new video and lack of transit in $11B I-285 toll lane plan
