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I so BADLY want to do away with the dealership model, not because I think it will save me money, but because buying a car is a terrible experience. I just hate nothing more than the hours-long process of haggling, paperwork, and misery that comes along with buying a car.
If I want a new Mercedes SUV, for example, I want to buy it for MSRP off of their website and have it shipped to my address. If MSRP is too high, then they can adjust it down to what the cars actually sell for, just like every other consumer-facing business that doesn't use a salesperson model. If I could buy it from Amazon, even better. Dealerships work by hiding the price from you and forcing you to do the research; imagine a world where a car is sold by companies that have to publish the selling price and sell it for that price (without "prep fees" and other garbage).
I would love to see dealerships move towards a "service only" model. I hate buying through them but agree that it's helpful to have brand-specific repair experts available to perform warranty service. These service centers could still offer test drives.
I so BADLY want to do away with the dealership model, not because I think it will save me money, but because buying a car is a terrible experience. I just hate nothing more than the hours-long process of haggling, paperwork, and misery that comes along with buying a car.
If I want a new Mercedes SUV, for example, I want to buy it for MSRP off of their website and have it shipped to my address. If MSRP is too high, then they can adjust it down to what the cars actually sell for, just like every other consumer-facing business that doesn't use a salesperson model. If I could buy it from Amazon, even better. Dealerships work by hiding the price from you and forcing you to do the research; imagine a world where a car is sold by companies that have to publish the selling price and sell it for that price (without "prep fees" and other garbage).
I would love to see dealerships move towards a "service only" model. I hate buying through them but agree that it's helpful to have brand-specific repair experts available to perform warranty service. These service centers could still offer test drives.
Why? Just because it is a large ticket item? Nothing else sells by that business model. I can go to Lowes, Best Buy, Home Depot, Sears, or a local mom-and-pop store to get my <insert brand here> washer and dryer set and I will get a different price at each place. Some will offer free haul away service, some will include the hoses and hook it up for me. Some will not. Yet 99% of the population doesn't bash them over their business model. Why is that?
Most of those stores have financing options, they will try to sell you extended warranties, and they absolutely can negotiate on their prices. Same business model. Why the hatred for dealerships? Just because it has a manufacturers logo on the sign out front the public seems to think they are getting screwed.
Airlines! You can pay 10x the price for the same ticket on the same plane for the same flight depending on where and when you bought it. Why does the world not flip out on the sales model for airfare?
If you hate the "hours-long process of haggling, paperwork, and misery" of buying a car then change the process. identify what you want and what you think is a fair price and turn it into a 10 minute process. I've done it, numerous times. You can do it, or you can pay for someone else to do it. Expecting a profitable business model to change simply because you don't know how to do it is ridiculous.
Why? Just because it is a large ticket item? Nothing else sells by that business model.
Homes. Motorcycles.
I've actually haggled on a lawn tractor. Made the dealer an offer, which he accepted.
I've never owned a boat. Do people pay MSRP for boats?
Homes. Motorcycles.
I've never owned a boat. Do people pay MSRP for boats?
I've bought 5 boats, 1 used, 4 new - never paid list price. They're like cars, a scarce model in demand just before season starts (where applicable) might command list price. But most boats are bought below list or asking. Sailboats usually have a markup of about 10%, powerboat/personal watercraft markups are often 20%.
This just shows that you know nothing about diesel dealerships or diesel engines. I am talking 2008+ vehicles complete with emission controls in place. Independent shops around this area can work on any diesel, regardless of the age. There is equipment out there that will analyze the emission system on new diesels and point out the problem. Heck, the trucks themselves will TELL you what is wrong. When the DPF fails, the truck won't start and the code presented TELLS you why. The emissions systems on these trucks are NOT that complicated.
You can't compare seeing a Mack at a FL dealer because it's a DEALERSHIP. The dealerships have equipment to work on THEIR brand of vehicle. An in independent has equipment to work on them all. Otherwise they wouldn't be in business.
DD diagnostic software is available to anyone. For $2,500 YOU can go out today and buy the laptop and software to work on it yourself. Oh..... and in case you're wondering, the software also includes emissions diagnostic software which will even force most vehicles to go into regen whether the computer says it is needed or not. Not sure where you are getting your info, but it is incorrect.
I'm sorry but your wrong about this. I am VERY familiar with diesel dealerships and diesel engines. I live and breathe this every day. There isn't an independent within 250 miles of me who can do major engine or emission system work on a Detroit. Those independent shops arrange to have those problems fixed at a dealer and sometimes the customer doesn't even know it. They *think* the independent shop did the repair but that wasn't the case. The dealer bills the independent for the repair and then the independent puts it on their invoice to the customer.
There is not an independent shop who can buy that Detroit software you are talking about from Detroit Diesel Corp. Show me where you can buy it? I'm talking OEM software here, not some aftermarket knock-off...
If the OEM is opening up its own shop, what is the problem? This is contradictory to what you have been saying all along in that it would be too expensive for a manufacturer to open its own shops. You are now saying that they are. Which is it?
My point was that there are ways to get rid of the dealership model either through the OEM opening up their own or through licensing independent shops to do work for them. That is exactly what you just said above.....
You misunderstood and/or I wrote that bad.
When I say "OEM Dealer" I mean DEALER. (Owned by someone other than the manufacturer.)
My point was these "independent" and "certified" shops are basically mini-franchised dealers so not that much difference there.
Both of those are different than if a manufacturer owns a dealership themselves.
Why? Just because it is a large ticket item? Nothing else sells by that business model. I can go to Lowes, Best Buy, Home Depot, Sears, or a local mom-and-pop store to get my <insert brand here> washer and dryer set and I will get a different price at each place. Some will offer free haul away service, some will include the hoses and hook it up for me. Some will not. Yet 99% of the population doesn't bash them over their business model. Why is that?
Most of those stores have financing options, they will try to sell you extended warranties, and they absolutely can negotiate on their prices. Same business model. Why the hatred for dealerships? Just because it has a manufacturers logo on the sign out front the public seems to think they are getting screwed.
Airlines! You can pay 10x the price for the same ticket on the same plane for the same flight depending on where and when you bought it. Why does the world not flip out on the sales model for airfare?
If you hate the "hours-long process of haggling, paperwork, and misery" of buying a car then change the process. identify what you want and what you think is a fair price and turn it into a 10 minute process. I've done it, numerous times. You can do it, or you can pay for someone else to do it. Expecting a profitable business model to change simply because you don't know how to do it is ridiculous.
Exactly - well said.
I don't disagree that there are still too many crappy dealers out there but they are going by the wayside as industry consolidation keeps happening and the good dealers are taking over.
What cracks me up, though, is people that are screaming bloody murder over dealers who make a 2-4% return on their money.
To me:
- Each manufacturer should have the right to have dealers or not. I've said this before and I do believe that.
- That being said, the dealership model is not the big issue here in my opinion, the bigger issue is to weed-out the poor performing dealerships and improve customer satisfaction across the network. There are many good dealers out there who provide a good customer experience and those are the ones who will survive going forward.
Years ago when I was living in NJ I bought a few cars from Carsense. It was the best buying experience ever and I have bought a lot of cars. I first went to traditional dealers who wanted to give me far less than what I owed on my trade. When I went to carsense they had no haggle pricing and the SUV I was looking at was right at market value. I was in and out of the dealer in 45 minutes, they gave me $2k extra on trade than anywhere else and it was a very smooth transaction.
The next year I went to trade in my wifes car at a traditional dealer and then looked at Carsense once again. The exact same car at Carsense was a couple of thousand less than the traditional dealer and they were going to give me x amount for the trade. I went back to the dealer again to see if they could do the same deal and they flat out told me they couldn't beat that deal and let me walk out the door.
Why a new car dealer couldn't be the same is beyond me. Buying a car would be an enjoyable experience. I think so many people want to do away with the dealer because they almost always in my experience make it a miserable time that make me feel like they got the best of me.
I'm sorry but your wrong about this. I am VERY familiar with diesel dealerships and diesel engines. I live and breathe this every day. There isn't an independent within 250 miles of me who can do major engine or emission system work on a Detroit. Those independent shops arrange to have those problems fixed at a dealer and sometimes the customer doesn't even know it. They *think* the independent shop did the repair but that wasn't the case. The dealer bills the independent for the repair and then the independent puts it on their invoice to the customer.
There is not an independent shop who can buy that Detroit software you are talking about from Detroit Diesel Corp. Show me where you can buy it? I'm talking OEM software here, not some aftermarket knock-off...
That may be your area, but it isn't mine. The point being that when there is no dealer around, an independent will become certified so they can gain the business. This should be a very simple concept for you to understand if you're living and breathing this every day.
Detroit Diagnostic Link 8.3 is available to purchase online. I'm not going to add the link here for fear of violating the site TOS, but you can easily google it. That website also offers the OEM software for other brands as well. It's easy to find. Our dealership used it when we needed to work on equipment we didn't have software for.
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