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How about a Honda Civic with a receiver hitch, a small harbor freight folding trailer that usually lives folded upright in the garage, and an Rx for birth control pills to keep it to two rug rats? If you must, Thule bars and a roof pod.
What?
Take a look around. Pretty much every minivan has a V6 sourced from their midsize SUV lineup. Modern manufacturing dictates you use the same engine for as many models as possible. Explorers are using Taurus engines. 0-60 times are about the same for minivans and SUVs.
A modern Honda Odyssey is running low 15s. Back in the 60s that would have been considered a performance car.
I'm not talking about V6 engines. I always buy the V8 engine trim for SUVs (any type of vehicle, really). You can't get a V8 in a minivan. That's why performance and towing capacity for minivans is so anemic.
SUVs that only have a V6 are generally pretty lackluster too, unless it's a V6 turbocharged engine. So I don't buy those trim levels. Part of the reason why people buy SUVs is because they can get a much stronger engine than you can find in a minivan, even though they might be better suited to a minivan's features.
I'm not talking about V6 engines. I always buy the V8 engine trim for SUVs (any type of vehicle, really). You can't get a V8 in a minivan. That's why performance and towing capacity for minivans is so anemic.
SUVs that only have a V6 are generally pretty lackluster too, unless it's a V6 turbocharged engine. So I don't buy those trim levels. Part of the reason why people buy SUVs is because they can get a much stronger engine than you can find in a minivan, even though they might be better suited to a minivan's features.
You're comparing a full size truck to a midsized vehicle. A minivan with a V8 is just called a van. You don't buy a minivan for towing and very few people tow.
You're going to find modern 4 cylinder turbos and V6's replacing V8's across the board. A modern V6 has far more power and torque than a V8 from the 90's.
You're comparing a full size truck to a midsized vehicle. A minivan with a V8 is just called a van. You don't buy a minivan for towing and very few people tow.
You're going to find modern 4 cylinder turbos and V6's replacing V8's across the board. A modern V6 has far more power and torque than a V8 from the 90's.
So you've never heard of a midsize SUV?
Hint: They come with V8s.
I agree with TC... Personally I thought the R63 was a great idea. I've said it before, if a minivan could be had with a V8, I'd possibly be interested, because as far as moving the family around, a minivan design is easier to live with with their sliding doors and low ingress/egress.
That being said, the R63 was sold in extremely small numbers. Part of that was due to Mercedes not advertising it at all (it was only available special order) and partly because at the end of the day, soccer moms don't care about having 500+ horsepower to go to the grocery store and pick up the kids from school.
I bet if Chrysler/Dodge put a V8 in their new Pacifica/Grand Caravan, that would be a sales success.
I agree with TC... Personally I thought the R63 was a great idea. I've said it before, if a minivan could be had with a V8, I'd possibly be interested, because as far as moving the family around, a minivan design is easier to live with with their sliding doors and low ingress/egress.
That being said, the R63 was sold in extremely small numbers. Part of that was due to Mercedes not advertising it at all (it was only available special order) and partly because at the end of the day, soccer moms don't care about having 500+ horsepower to go to the grocery store and pick up the kids from school.
I bet if Chrysler/Dodge put a V8 in their new Pacifica/Grand Caravan, that would be a sales success.
Your V8 argument doesn't hold water. There are V8 SUVs that are faster than minivans, and there are V8 SUVs that are slower. The number of cylinders an engine has is a pretty meaningless metric in terms of estimating performance.
With few exceptions, SUVs offer dismal performance on par with minivans - except minivans offer superior chassis dynamics.
Your V8 argument doesn't hold water. There are V8 SUVs that are faster than minivans, and there are V8 SUVs that are slower. The number of cylinders an engine has is a pretty meaningless metric in terms of estimating performance.
With few exceptions, SUVs offer dismal performance on par with minivans - except minivans offer superior chassis dynamics.
I guess you've never heard of the BMW X5M/X6M, Porsche Cayenne S/GTS/Turbo, Mercedes ML63/GLE63.
You're not getting it. You can buy a midsize SUV with the acceleration of a sports car. You CANNOT buy a minivan like that, and that's what I'd want out of a minivan. If you need a people mover but also want it to be sporty, you don't have a choice with a minivan. An SUV is the only way to go.
I guess you've never heard of the BMW X5M/X6M, Porsche Cayenne S/GTS/Turbo, Mercedes ML63/GLE63.
You're not getting it. You can buy a midsize SUV with the acceleration of a sports car. You CANNOT buy a minivan like that, and that's what I'd want out of a minivan. If you need a people mover but also want it to be sporty, you don't have a choice with a minivan. An SUV is the only way to go.
Not a difficult concept.
So an Expedition XL is sporty?
A minivan with a V8 is just a van. The Caravan was sucessful because it didn't have a V8. They realized most people didn't need a V8 just to move people around.
Being a sporty people mover means it's not good at either. It's too big to be sporty and riding in a sporty vehicle as a passenger in the 3rd row sucks.
Tell me what part of my post you quoted would lead you to think an Expedition XL is sporty. Then please tell me how you arrived at the idea that it's even a midsize SUV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100
A minivan with a V8 is just a van. The Caravan was sucessful because it didn't have a V8. They realized most people didn't need a V8 just to move people around.
Oh great. This lame argument again. People don't need convertibles either. They don't need high horsepower engines with poor gas mileage either. They don't need cars that go over 200mph. There are plenty of people who would buy a minivan if they could be equipped with a V8 or high horsepower turbo 6. But since you can't, they buy SUVs with those engines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100
Being a sporty people mover means it's not good at either. It's too big to be sporty and riding in a sporty vehicle as a passenger in the 3rd row sucks.
It's not ideal, no. But it's still better than a minivan, which is what this thread is about and why they aren't the most practical vehicle.
Your V8 argument doesn't hold water. There are V8 SUVs that are faster than minivans, and there are V8 SUVs that are slower. The number of cylinders an engine has is a pretty meaningless metric in terms of estimating performance.
With few exceptions, SUVs offer dismal performance on par with minivans - except minivans offer superior chassis dynamics.
My 8.1 liter Gas V8 Suburban is plenty quick, and it tows more than a minivan while being able carry as much or more. That makes it more practical for me. And that's what this thread is starting to be about.
I get it. YOU want everr car to be a race car or it's worthless. Not a good metric for every vehicle. The dynamics are just fine for non-racing. I have a sports sedan and sport convertible for those kinds of dynamics. Neither of them, however, can make good home depot runs or tow my 9500 lb travel trailer up a mountain pass. And a minivan can't do the latter. Therefore it's totally impractical for me to have one, as it won't do anything better than the vehicles I have and in many cases it's worse.
I guess you've never heard of the BMW X5M/X6M, Porsche Cayenne S/GTS/Turbo, Mercedes ML63/GLE63.
You're not getting it. You can buy a midsize SUV with the acceleration of a sports car. You CANNOT buy a minivan like that, and that's what I'd want out of a minivan. If you need a people mover but also want it to be sporty, you don't have a choice with a minivan. An SUV is the only way to go.
Not a difficult concept.
You're not getting it. In my earlier post I cited the very SUVs you listed as exceptions. Plus, you do realize you're talking about $100K+ vehicles? Get real. This discussion is about minivans and typical SUVs - the ones you listed are anything but typical. At least try to stay on topic.
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