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Even in the old days, transmission indicators were not always perfect. I had a 1978 Chevrolet Malibu where putting it in drive had the column indicator between D and N. When the indicator was on D, it was actually in 2nd gear. ....
Well, the point was that the indicator was not important. I learned to drive in cars with automatic tran and column shifters and I don't know that I ever looked at the indicator more than a couple times in all the years I drove/have driven such cars. In the automatic trans cars I've had with console shifters, I doubt I've looked at the indicator more than a dozen times in 42 years since I got the first car with that configuration. And no one looks at the shift pattern on top of a standard trans knob more than a couple times to figure out where reverse is - heck, you can't! Your hand's covering it!
Proper ergonomic design - and there have been many books written on this - would dictate that gear shifting be accessible by feel alone, with no need to make a visual confirmation.
The old straight line shift patterns for automatics, whether column or console, allow you to do all common shifting functions without looking at anything, purely by the location and strength of the detents. That's good ergonomic design. Bad ergonomic design is where tactile feedback does not give you any idea where the control is located. Not so important to a radio volume control; can result in property damage, personal injury or death in the case of a transmission shifter.
The principles of human factors engineering have largely been lost over the last 20 years or so of automotive design. The basic principle of automotive driver controls from sometime in the 1930s through the 1990s was that the driver should be able to keep his eyes on the road and surroundings at all times and access all controls without having to look or search. That basic, safety-driven principle has been thrown out the window with the plethora of touchscreens and other matters like the anti-ergonomic shift controls being discussed here.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshultz
Even in the old days, transmission indicators were not always perfect. I had a 1978 Chevrolet Malibu where putting it in drive had the column indicator between D and N. When the indicator was on D, it was actually in 2nd gear. I don't know if this was poor quality control, or if the column indicator was designed for the Turbo-Hydramatic 350 instead of the Turbo-Hydramatic 200 that this car was equipped with. The car certainly had its share of quality control issues. I traded it before the Turbo-Hydramatic 200 could fail. This transmission was not suitable with a V8 engine.
I know it's too late, now, but you do realize that the shifter's indicator WAS adjustable, to remedy the situation you're speaking of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3
Well, the point was that the indicator was not important. I learned to drive in cars with automatic transmissions and column shifters and I don't know that I ever looked at the indicator more than a couple times in all the years I drove/have driven such cars. In the automatic trans cars I've had with console shifters, I doubt I've looked at the indicator more than a dozen times in 42 years since I got the first car with that configuration. And no one looks at the shift pattern on top of a standard trans knob more than a couple times to figure out where reverse is - heck, you can't! Your hand's covering it!
Proper ergonomic design - and there have been many books written on this - would dictate that gear shifting be accessible by feel alone, with no need to make a visual confirmation.
I know it's too late, now, but you do realize that the shifter's indicator WAS adjustable, to remedy the situation you're speaking of..
No one ever adjusted those column shift gear indicators. Why? Because no one ever used them for anything. You'd look at it and say "hmmm... I'm in D but it points halfway between D and N. Interesting..." and you'd never think about it again. Why? Because the gear was completely accessible by feel with no visual confirmation needed. In other words, correct human factors design.
No one ever adjusted those column shift gear indicators. Why? Because no one ever used them for anything. You'd look at it and say "hmmm... I'm in D but it points halfway between D and N. Interesting..." and you'd never think about it again. Why? Because the gear was completely accessible by feel with no visual confirmation needed. In other words, correct human factors design.
The old straight line shift patterns for automatics, whether column or console, allow you to do all common shifting functions without looking at anything, purely by the location and strength of the detents. That's good ergonomic design. Bad ergonomic design is where tactile feedback does not give you any idea where the control is located. Not so important to a radio volume control; can result in property damage, personal injury or death in the case of a transmission shifter.
The principles of human factors engineering have largely been lost over the last 20 years or so of automotive design. The basic principle of automotive driver controls from sometime in the 1930s through the 1990s was that the driver should be able to keep his eyes on the road and surroundings at all times and access all controls without having to look or search. That basic, safety-driven principle has been thrown out the window with the plethora of touchscreens and other matters like the anti-ergonomic shift controls being discussed here.
Yeah? Do you remember how people used to navigate in those days? By reading a paper map while driving!
I remember staring at my tape player while winding it to find the song I wanted. Passenger seat was dedicated to holding my CD binder so I could flip through them while driving. Now I push a button ask Siri to find the song I want while nav prompts tell me what lane to be in. The old days weren’t what you thought they were.
Us older folks made it possible for you to have what you’re driving today, we been there done that but younger people seem to forget that.
Yes you started with horses and buggies and now we have cars that can pretty much drive themselves. You start with something then improve on it. I’ve had manuals, DCT’s, autos, column shifts, rotary knobs, buttons, don’t matter to me. I spend a couple seconds to figure it out then put the car in gear and go and never have a problem. As long as they don’t mess with the turn signals, I’m good with whatever.
What those knobs and buttons do is simplify the linkages going to the transmission to allow for better packaging or get the shifter out of the way (ever have a car that you couldn’t access the AC or radio while in park?) The first time I put my old Corvette in reverse, I punched the drink out of the tiny cup holder because that’s where the stick went for reverse. I’m sure it’s all charming looking back, but older cars were always a work in progress.
Yes you started with horses and buggies and now we have cars that can pretty much drive themselves. You start with something then improve on it. I’ve had manuals, DCT’s, autos, column shifts, rotary knobs, buttons, don’t matter to me. I spend a couple seconds to figure it out then put the car in gear and go and never have a problem. As long as they don’t mess with the turn signals, I’m good with whatever.
What those knobs and buttons do is simplify the linkages going to the transmission to allow for better packaging or get the shifter out of the way (ever have a car that you couldn’t access the AC or radio while in park?) The first time I put my old Corvette in reverse, I punched the drink out of the tiny cup holder because that’s where the stick went for reverse. I’m sure it’s all charming looking back, but older cars were always a work in progress.
Ehhhh maybe? I’ll proffer my ‘14 Town and Country again. The dash mounted shifter doesn’t really gain anything vs a column shifter. But maybe it’s a bit of a transitional thing? If it felt a wee bit more instinctual, I’d probably likewise be a wee bit more on board with the freshest shifter form factors.
Ehhhh maybe? I’ll proffer my ‘14 Town and Country again. The dash mounted shifter doesn’t really gain anything vs a column shifter. But maybe it’s a bit of a transitional thing? If it felt a wee bit more instinctual, I’d probably likewise be a wee bit more on board with the freshest shifter form factors.
The dash mounted shifter probably was simpler and cheaper than column mounted. I haven’t seen a column mount in years. I’m guessing the column mount was the answer to freeing up the center console for more storage or room for someone to sit in a bench seat but most manufacturers went with console shifters. In minivans they probably tried to split the difference with a dash shifter. My Pacifica had a knob. Not my favorite, but not difficult either. Now it’s all shift by wire so they can use whatever they want.
The dash mounted shifter probably was simpler and cheaper than column mounted. I haven’t seen a column mount in years. I’m guessing the column mount was the answer to freeing up the center console for more storage or room for someone to sit in a bench seat but most manufacturers went with console shifters. In minivans they probably tried to split the difference with a dash shifter. My Pacifica had a knob. Not my favorite, but not difficult either. Now it’s all shift by wire so they can use whatever they want.
Perhaps? I’m not entirely sure it’s a mechanical linkage. Either way, while it’s not a dealbreaker for me, it’s kind of awkward. I’d almost rather have a puck shifter just because I won’t keep getting fooled into thinking I can shift it while keeping my right hand on the wheel. It’s just neither fish nor fowl.
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