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Location: Removing a snake out of the neighbor's washing machine
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Is there a way to forward the contents of this thread to at least five of the world's largest car makers?
Afterall, it is people like us on this thread who buy the cars and pay the salaries of those who run those companies, and of those who design them, and market them.
Input such as what I've read on here, real-world driving experiences from real people, is what needs to be placed in front of them.
I’ve used the puck shifter thing in a Dodge Ram. It was sub-optimal in terms of having to reach for it and not feeling at all intuitive, but didn’t particularly bother me. Likewise the dash-mounted shifter in my wife’s minivan.
I’m told this crop of shifters was done to free up console or other real estate for other uses, particularly since physical linkages to the trans have been largely a thing of the past anyway. That also explains some of the demise of manual transmissions, too, where you really can’t get away with that.
I do suspect, though, that this crop of shifters is at least partly an answer in search of a question.
With all you have stated in mind, I keep repeating: I don't have to buy it. My model year cutoff is 2010-11. The last year, as far as I'm concerned, of the 'automotive common sense' era. If some people consider that time period - and my 2010 Honda - it the horse-&-buggy era, so be it.
Get off my lawn, eh? OK, what about safety improvements? For example, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) developed a new offset crash test around 2012, the SORB test (see link). It's intended to replicate a crash where your front left headlight area hits another car the same way, like when one crosses the yellow line. Similarly, the IIHS Roof Crush standard came out around then which increased the weight requirements that your roof structure must withstand. These are not federal regulations but both started to become industry standard in the last decade such that all cars pretty much meet them or they aren't competitive. If you insist on older vehicles, you may end up with a less safe car.
This is not subjective, touchy-feely preferences about switches, etc. It's hard objective science.
Location: Removing a snake out of the neighbor's washing machine
3,095 posts, read 2,038,767 times
Reputation: 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by KO Stradivarius
Get off my lawn, eh? OK, what about safety improvements? For
example, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) developed a
new offset crash test around 2012, the SORB test (see link). It's intended
to replicate a crash where your front left headlight area hits another car the
same way, like when one crosses the yellow line. Similarly, the IIHS Roof
Crush standard came out around then which increased the weight requirements
that your roof structure must withstand. These are not federal regulations
but both started to become industry standard in the last decade such that
all cars pretty much meet them or they aren't competitive. If you insist on
older vehicles, you may end up with a less safe car.
This is not subjective, touchy-feely preferences about switches, etc. It's hard
objective science.
Both the 2012 Caddy limousine driver and myself(in my 2008 Kia Optima) made out just fine after a quasi offset between my Kia and his Caddy totalled my Optima four years ago. I had front airbag deploy and just a tender lower back for a couple days after the collision.
It was a strong crash, and I do recall him screeching his brakes when he realized he was turning left - into me - instead of into the gas station to the right of my travel lane!
Again: Both involved vehicles from, roughly, the end of the common-sense era in MV design!
Last edited by TheGrandK-Man; 12-31-2020 at 12:37 PM..
Both the 2012 Caddy limousine driver and myself(in my 2008 Kia Optima) made out just fine after a quasi offset between my Kia and his Caddy totalled my Optima four years ago. I had front airbag deploy and just a tender lower back for a couple days after the collision.
It was a strong crash, and I do recall him screeching his brakes when he realized he was turning left - into me - instead of into the gas station to the right of my travel lane!
Again: Both involved vehicles from, roughly, the end of the common-sense era in MV design!
You're welcome. Here is another. Maybe you can find some supporting data for the insistence of your argument.
Another example: "Electronic stability control
Losing control of your vehicle is never a good thing, but vehicle safety systems are in place to help you if you are in that situation. For example, electronic stability control aims to reduce spin-outs and plow-outs. Electronic stability control systems, required in all new cars since September 1, 2011, use automatic computer-controlled braking of wheels to assist you in maintaining control if you begin to lose control of your vehicle."
"Quasi offset"? Do some research instead of relying on a one time anecdote. Cars are constantly getting safer, period.
Last edited by KO Stradivarius; 12-31-2020 at 12:51 PM..
Some of it is ridiculous. One of my friends bought a new car years ago, and the daughter took it out and tried to get gas. She call dad from the gas station because no matter what they did they could not get the gas door open. It turned out that all the doors had to be locked or unlocked, I can’t remember which, before it would open.
My personal pet peeve. You're traveling for work, the job ran just a smidgen late but you can make the flight home if you hustle. You have the boarding pass stored on your phone, nothing metallic in your pockets, all you need is to top off the rental, drop it off and make the dash. You know the roads and the airport and the gas station that's well placed for the car rental drop off and.... And that's when you can't open the damn filler cap. Is there a button, a lever, a menu choice, do you have to invoke the Ancient Ones? Open the doors in counterclockwise succession? Kick the tires furiously? (That last one doesn't work, for the record.)
Get off my lawn, eh? OK, what about safety improvements? For example, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) developed a new offset crash test around 2012, the SORB test (see link). It's intended to replicate a crash where your front left headlight area hits another car the same way, like when one crosses the yellow line. Similarly, the IIHS Roof Crush standard came out around then which increased the weight requirements that your roof structure must withstand. These are not federal regulations but both started to become industry standard in the last decade such that all cars pretty much meet them or they aren't competitive. If you insist on older vehicles, you may end up with a less safe car.
This is not subjective, touchy-feely preferences about switches, etc. It's hard objective science.
That is the thing - that sort of development is actual engineering, and it's awesome. It doesn't get in the way, it just sort of hovers in the background until needed.
Another example: "Electronic stability control
Losing control of your vehicle is never a good thing, but vehicle safety
systems are in place to help you if you are in that situation. For example,
electronic stability control aims to reduce spin-outs and plow-outs. Electronic
stability control systems, required in all new cars since September 1,
2011, use automatic computer-controlled braking of wheels to assist you
in maintaining control if you begin to lose control of your vehicle."
"Quasi offset"? Do some research instead of relying on a one time anecdote.
Cars are constantly getting safer, period.
Well, I appreciate some of the safety implements. But electric power steering, plus no facilities for playing physical media and a big honkin tablet where the dash used to be, are enough to keep me out of anything built after 2012.
I agree, but ironically, it was put there to make room for a 3rd passenger in the front seat, beginning sometime in the 40s. Before that, the shifters were on the floor, in many cars. But then in the 60s, "floor shifters" and bucket seats became fashionable again....
My Corvette has "six on the floor". I love it.......
I didn't know that history, so thanks for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
That sounds like me. I once spent 20 minutes on the shoulder of a rainy Florida freeway trying to figure out how to turn the windshield wipers on in my rental.
Gadgets get complicated. KISS principle applies to this entire discussion as far as I'm concerned. Camouflaging necessary and critical controls is at least stupid if not a liability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man
With all you have stated in mind, I keep repeating: I don't have to buy it. My model year cutoff is 2010-11. The last year, as far as I'm concerrned, of the 'automotive common sense' era. If some people consider that time period - and my 2010 Honda - it the horse-&-buggy era, so be it.
I have a 2017 Soul. The HVAC and radio controls are all something that someone from the '60s or '70s could figure out in a few seconds. I've had cars with the screens and all that jazz and, again KISS applies. Complex for complexity's sake is stupid and dangerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit
This thread feels a bit like old people raging about change in principle. Simple fact is that if you purchase a piece of machinery you should familiarize yourself with its basic functions before operating it.
Perhaps whippersnappers enjoy wasting time scrolling around on screens for WS wipers or radio stations or HVAC settings, I do not. I'd prefer to watch the road and traffic and lights and signs and I have better things, like driving, to do while I'm driving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshultz
It's my understanding that the telephone keypad does not match the 10-key calculator keypad because the people who designed the telephone keypad did not use the 10-key calculator. It would have been better if they were both the same.
I'd guess the phone keypad was born first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
Siri doesn’t understand half the things I say. I could just see the trunk popping open on the highway when I ask her to turn the heat up!
Siri is a spy device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man
Well, I appreciate some of the safety implements. But electric power steering, plus no facilities for playing physical media and a big honkin tablet where the dash used to be, are enough to keep me out of anything built after 2012.
Nope. Calculators had the keypad long before dials were replaced on telephones.
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