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Ergo, it is imperative that we shift to the MOST EFFICIENT FORM OF LAND TRANSPORT... and that is NOT electric automobiles on pneumatic tires.
I'd argue rail is the 2nd most efficient form of transport, 2nd to bicycling. Bicycles convert 98% of energy to forward motion. They are route efficient because, like cars, they take you from point A to B. Trains require three legs: point A to the station; the train ride; then the station to point B. I'd argue the train efficiency stats are skewed because they don't take the extra legs into account (walking? Uber ride?) that consume energy to complete the trip.
To bring this back on topic, I'd suggest that the increasingly popular electric bicycle must also be very efficient due to low weight, low rolling resistance and low speed (which keeps losses due to aerodynamic drag low).
I'd argue rail is the 2nd most efficient form of transport, 2nd to bicycling. Bicycles convert 98% of energy to forward motion. They are route efficient because, like cars, they take you from point A to B. Trains require three legs: point A to the station; the train ride; then the station to point B. I'd argue the train efficiency stats are skewed because they don't take the extra legs into account (walking? Uber ride?) that consume energy to complete the trip.
To bring this back on topic, I'd suggest that the increasingly popular electric bicycle must also be very efficient due to low weight, low rolling resistance and low speed (which keeps losses due to aerodynamic drag low).
Actually human bicycling only converts 20-25% of energy to mechanical work.
Actually human bicycling only converts 20-25% of energy to mechanical work.
Johns Hopkins Univ lab study determined it to be 98.6%. That's energy applied to the pedal converted to forward motion. If you want to compute it based on kcal consumed as food and then converted, that's a different story. To make that apples-to-apples with trains/cars then you'd have to consider energy lost/consumed in pumping oil and converting it to gas/diesel, etc.
Johns Hopkins Univ lab study determined it to be 98.6%. That's energy applied to the pedal converted to forward motion. If you want to compute it based on kcal consumed as food and then converted, that's a different story. To make that apples-to-apples with trains/cars then you'd have to consider energy lost/consumed in pumping oil and converting it to gas/diesel, etc.
Yes true but you can't compare bicycling to mechanical systems where you can decouple the energy generation from the mechanical output. Human muscles are only so efficient and a lot of heat is lost. We can't replace muscle with DC motor actuators :P
You can actually pedal a bicycle so that your metric of efficiency is actually 100%. The problem is, the biomechanical efficiency of the human body to do that will actually go lower.
Johns Hopkins Univ lab study determined it to be 98.6%. That's energy applied to the pedal converted to forward motion. If you want to compute it based on kcal consumed as food and then converted, that's a different story. To make that apples-to-apples with trains/cars then you'd have to consider energy lost/consumed in pumping oil and converting it to gas/diesel, etc.
There's also a massive energy saving in production and maintenance expenditures as well as very large space savings and far less potential damage to others in terms of life and property. On top of that is a bit of built in exercise and fitness. However, the US is so heavily built around accommodating cars above all else that there are fairly limited areas in the US where bike transit really makes good use of its full potential. Unfortunately, EV adoption for private car usage, while better environmentally than ICE vehicles overall, are still a far cry from building cities to better accommodate walking, biking, and mass transit. That being said, a lot of mass transit vehicles can greatly benefit from EV powertrains.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Originally Posted by Elliott_CA
Johns Hopkins Univ lab study determined it to be 98.6%. That's energy applied to the pedal converted to forward motion. If you want to compute it based on kcal consumed as food and then converted, that's a different story. To make that apples-to-apples with trains/cars then you'd have to consider energy lost/consumed in pumping oil and converting it to gas/diesel, etc.
The efficiency of the bicycle is irrelevant for older folks, and those that live in places like me, at 600' elevation where everything is at least a mile down steep hills. Even electrics with mid-drive motors don't have the power to make it back up home if I go anywhere. More importantly, you cannot carry a load of Costco food and stuff, or tow a travel trailer or boat with a bicycle. We have them, but use it for recreational purposes and exercise, usually throwing them in the truck and driving to trails.
There's also a massive energy saving in production and maintenance expenditures as well as very large space savings and far less potential damage to others in terms of life and property. On top of that is a bit of built in exercise and fitness. However, the US is so heavily built around accommodating cars above all else that there are fairly limited areas in the US where bike transit really makes good use of its full potential. Unfortunately, EV adoption for private car usage, while better environmentally than ICE vehicles overall, are still a far cry from building cities to better accommodate walking, biking, and mass transit. That being said, a lot of mass transit vehicles can greatly benefit from EV powertrains.
All good points. The aluminum in one ICE 4-cyl engine block is enough to make 14 bicycles.
Here in parts of California local governments have been increasing accommodations for bike transportation: bike paths/lanes, bike rentals, multi-mode (bikes on buses/trains/trolleys), bike parking garages, getting workplaces (gov't and private) to provide bike parking facilities.
All good points. The aluminum in one ICE 4-cyl engine block is enough to make 14 bicycles.
Here in parts of California local governments have been increasing accommodations for bike transportation: bike paths/lanes, bike rentals, multi-mode (bikes on buses/trains/trolleys), bike parking garages, getting workplaces (gov't and private) to provide bike parking facilities.
Right, and one parking spots for a car can park something like a dozen bikes. It's efficient in a lot of ways, and CA generally has great weather for biking, but not necessarily great infrastructure to support such.
All good points. The aluminum in one ICE 4-cyl engine block is enough to make 14 bicycles.
Here in parts of California local governments have been increasing accommodations for bike transportation: bike paths/lanes, bike rentals, multi-mode (bikes on buses/trains/trolleys), bike parking garages, getting workplaces (gov't and private) to provide bike parking facilities.
Not workable somewhere like Florida with high humidity. I'm sometimes drenched in sweat just walking from the car to the building, I can't even imagine riding a bicycle to work.
I do have a 250cc scooter that I sometimes ride, but even that I don't ride as much as I used to. Too many people nowadays texting and not paying attention.
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