Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So what's going to increase the demand of electric cars?
The article that this thread is about: EVs available at the same purchase price and then a lower purchase rice without subsidies compared to similar ICE vehicles due to battery costs per kWh going down. That was the article posted: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-mass-adoption
The article that this thread is about: EVs available at the same price and then a lower price without subsidies as similar ICE vehicles due to battery costs per kWh going down.
They always have been, the fact that they're close to the same price as a conventional vehicle is a rip off they should be much cheaper. Far less goes into the manufacturing of them.
They overcharge for them because they're not going to sell that many.
they've always been available and very few people buy them. They don't seem to be something people want in large numbers.
The article that this thread is about: EVs available at the same price and then a lower price without subsidies as similar ICE vehicles due to battery costs per kWh going down. That was the article posted: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-mass-adoption
In the first post and quoted in the title.
The guardian? That is a tabloid. In a few years when the market of electric cars has increased 40% so going from 2% to closer to 3% that will also be a tipping point and it'll keep being the tipping point for years to come like it has been years past.
I'm only pessimistic about this because this is all old news I remember it in the 90s I read about it in the 70s.
The guardian? That is a tabloid. In a few years when the market of electric cars has increased 40% so going from 2% to closer to 3% that will also be a tipping point and it'll keep being the tipping point for years to come like it has been years past.
I'm only pessimistic about this because this is all old news I remember it in the 90s I read about it in the 70s.
Sure, then follow the sources where it's Bloomberg analysts and academics they're quoting. Or what they're citing for reference such as how the market reacted when government incentives artificially lowered the price of electric vehicles compared to ICE vehicles.
They're not talking about a tipping point of plugins going from 2% closer to 3% in a few years. We're talking more about 2% closer to 10% in a few years and closer to 50% in several years.
There are a lot of battery improvements over the past few decades. Your smartphone has a battery whose characteristics in terms of energy density, price, and charge times would probably be a small miracle compared to that in the year 2000.
Sure, then follow the sources where it's Bloomberg analysts and academics they're quoting. Or what they're citing for reference such as how the market reacted when government incentives artificially lowered the price of electric vehicles compared to ICE vehicles.
academics don't have any credibility if what they say goes against what reality is.
Quote:
They're not talking about a tipping point of plugins going from 2% closer to 3% in a few years. We're talking more about 2% closer to 10% in a few years and closer to 50% in several years.
in Europe Maybe.
Quote:
There are a lot of battery improvements over the past few decades. Your smartphone has a battery whose characteristics in terms of energy density, price, and charge times would probably be a small miracle compared to that in the year 2000.
But having it purely electric seems like just a way to improve on something inferior why would anybody want that?
academics don't have any credibility if what they say goes against what reality is.
in Europe Maybe.
But having it purely electric seems like just a way to improve on something inferior why would anybody want that?
It's a projection for a tipping point a few to several years from now not a statement of how things are now. We're not in 2023, 2024, or 2025 right now. It's a prediction for the future that not just academics, but many market analysts are making. Is that a guarantee that it will happen? No, but they're citing past data to make their projections for the near future.
In multiple countries in Europe, they've already passed 10% plugins for new vehicle market share, so yea, in multiple countries of Europe it's obviously not just a projection of the future, but something that's already happened. Europe's largest auto market is Germany and their plugin market share last month was 26.6% with a split of 14% fully battery electric and 12.6% plugin hybrid.
I don't understand your last question. Why would someone not want something that's an improvement on something inferior?
Sure, but reality are you talking about here? It's a projection for a tipping point a few to several years from now not a statement of how things are now. We're not in 2023, 2024, or 2025 right now. It's a prediction for the future that not just academics, but many market analysts are making. Is that a guarantee that it will happen? No, but they're citing past data to make their projections for the near future.
oh so it's like Nostradamus or astrology.
Quote:
In multiple countries in Europe, they've already passed 10% plugins for new vehicle market share, so yea, in multiple countries of Europe it's obviously not just a projection of the future, but something that's already happened.
yeah Europe has always had different demands on their transportation than the US has.
Quote:
I don't understand your last question. Why would someone not want something that's an improvement on something inferior?
Okay let me explain, we already have something Superior to an electric car a conventional car that runs on fuel. It's already developed we don't need to do a lot of stuff to make it better. so why go back into the past and pluck out this Victorian era relic to try and make it applicable to today?
oh so it's like Nostradamus or astrology.
yeah Europe has always had different demands on their transportation than the US has.
Okay let me explain, we already have something Superior to an electric car a conventional car that runs on fuel. It's already developed we don't need to do a lot of stuff to make it better. so why go back into the past and pluck out this Victorian era relic to try and make it applicable to today?
Sure, it's like Nostradamus or astrology in some way. Projecting based on past data and the reasoning for such is still projecting on outcomes that aren't known yet. Same with weather projections for the week or any kind of retirement investment account. You are not guaranteed the exact result, but there is such a thing as more informed or rational guessing which maybe Nostradamus or astrology are a bit different in some respects.
No doubt Europe has had different demands on their transportation than the US and that Europe's urban planning and human geography, though obviously very different countries exist in Europe, are overall somewhat different from that of the US. I do think Europe will take up EVs faster than the US and that has obviously been the case so far for multiple reasons.
What you said was:
Quote:
But having it purely electric seems like just a way to improve on something inferior why would anybody want that?
So a purely electric car is a way to improve on something inferior. Yea, if that's the case, then it would make sense that somebody would want that.
Sure, it's like Nostradamus or astrology in some way. Projecting based on past data and the reasoning for such is still projecting on outcomes that aren't known yet. Same with weather projections for the week or any kind of retirement investment account. You are not guaranteed the exact result, but there is such a thing as more informed or rational guessing which maybe Nostradamus or astrology are a bit different in some respects.
this business about electric vehicles sounds more like wishful thinking.
Quote:
No doubt Europe has had different demands on their transportation than the US and that Europe's urban planning and human geography, though obviously very different countries exist in Europe, are overall somewhat different from that of the US. I do think Europe will take up EVs faster than the US and that has obviously been the case so far for multiple reasons.
yeah they don't drive as much that's why generally speaking cars they make over there are such poor quality.
Quote:
What you said was:
So a purely electric car is a way to improve on something inferior. Yea, if that's the case, then it would make sense that somebody would want that.
No it doesn't be purely electric car is inferior to a fuel powered car. What you would want is the superior product hence the low demand for electric cars.
You don't improve something that's advanced by retrofitting it to something from a century ago.
this business about electric vehicles sounds more like wishful thinking.
yeah they don't drive as much that's why generally speaking cars they make over there are such poor quality.
No it doesn't be purely electric car is inferior to a fuel powered car. What you would want is the superior product hence the low demand for electric cars.
You don't improve something that's advanced by retrofitting it to something from a century ago.
It could be wishful thinking. Again, the projections are for a few years from now.
Yep, they drive fewer miles overall per person in most of Europe than they do here in the US, so there are different conditions to be met. US drivers probably would want more range for an equivalent vehicle than the average European would, so I think uptake will be a bit slower here overall. Range increases per price of vehicle have improved enough to hit some kind of threshold for the habits in some countries. Germany which I mentioned earlier, had their EV market share at about 0.6% five years ago which is much lower than the 26.6% they saw last month and at least part of it is because for a certain price range, the vehicle range has gotten to a point where it looks more favorable. For the US, it'll probably have to be something like a $30K vehicle that has at least 300 miles of range.
Sure, but what you said was that a purely electric car is a way to improve on something inferior. I see that you misspoke on what you actually wanted to say. I actually don't think a purely electric car right now is inferior to a fuel powered car overall, but it depends a lot on the use case of the person driving it. I think for sure if you do not own a place where you can charge your vehicle, then it will probably be an inferior option and for quite some time.
No one, at least not in mass production, is retrofitting a 150 year old lead acid battery to a modern car chassis. Most EVs are going to use battery designs that have had at least some kind of update from the last several years.
The gas turbine was invented in the late 18th century. Jet engines didn't come into popular civil aviation for quite a while later after there was already an age of hot-air balloons, hydrogen dirigibles, and early airplane designs with piston-driven propellers. When jet engines made a reappearance in the 1950s, they were not dismissed because they were 150 year old technology and were certainly not retrofitting existing planes with the same gas turbines as that of the late 18th century. That would be foolish to do, and so whatever idiot is thinking of doing just that with 150 year old battery technology, I would agree with you has pretty much zero chance of succeeding in any meaningful way.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-26-2021 at 03:05 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
