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I hate hate hate hate the trend of just slapping a giant tablet in the middle of the dashboard. It looks so freaking stupid.
the front of it looks comical
Might have to make peace with it. Seems to be what everyone is doing these days. Mercedes on the expensive models does a better job of integrating the stupid screen as does Porsche on the Taycan. Still dumb though.
Would I rather:
A) Reach out for the mechanic tab to redirect the airflow in the vent with my finger as I'm driving which I can do by touch without ever taking my eyes off the road.
B) Look at the touch screen and touch the "Climate" menu. Wait for the slow system to change menus. Look at the touch screen and select the "Vent Position" menu which I have to scroll down to access. Wait for the slow system to change displays. Look at the touch screen as I pinch and zoon to redirect the airflow where I want it according to the diagram on the laggy touch screen.
I know, I know. It's most definitely B! It's not just the silly startup companies either. Look at all the things VW which used to be a company of buttons for everything has relocated to menus on the touch screen on the newer products. The RGB mood lights can go live in the touch screen. 99% of people will never use them as they aren't teenagers who want to RGD bedazzle everything.
I think it's pretty clear one performs better than the other, but that's fine.
a. they take turns leading
b. the Rivian's height being adjustable and having a very high max clearance along with other important geometry for off-roading isn't a side point--that's intrinsic to the vehicle, so saying this is basically just listing that, yea, the Rivian has better specs for off-roading
c. eh, are they? Neither are really geared towards snow
d. Right, driver experience matters a lot, and if you watch TFL at all or even from that video, Andre driving the Rivian is the less experienced off-roading driver of the two whereas Roman driving the Tundra generally coaches him through any tough points
It still doesn't matter, since:
-One vehicle through deep snow creates a trail for the other to follow.
-One has aggressive tire treads, while the other doesn't.
-One has more ground clearance than the other.
-The tires of both vehicles aren't riding over the snow exactly at the same time, nor the same place.
-Each vehicle is being driven by a different person.
-One vehicle does not have the exact traction control as the other, and one costs about half the price of the other.
-If the tires are spinning, it has nothing to do with the vehicle, just that the tires are unable to provide traction.
-If the truck has a manual transmission, what you want to do is to shift to a higher gear and barely press the gas pedal to let the tires gain the most traction. For example, instead of all the torque available on first gear, switch to second of third gear and release the clutch s l o w l iso the tires stop spinning. If you spin the tires, then the snow melts right on top of the packed snow under the tires,. which in turn creates a layer of very slick ice underneath.
-If the truck has an automatic transmission, leave it on D (drive), but barely press the accelerator to avoid wheel spin.
There are two different snow or mud road conditions: one is encountered by the leading truck, and the other by the truck that follows. That's the way it is when driving through deep snow or mud. For example, years ago I was driving from Fairbanks to Anchorage and it was snowing heavily as I neared the Denali Park area. I was driving a 1987 FWD Honda Civic Is, but the snow was deep enough to rub against the undercarriage and make a lot of noise. However, I was driving on the tracks several automobiles ahead of me were leaving behind. These vehicles were sort of plowing some of the snow with the floor of their vehicles and leaving tracks for me to drive on. It was a lot easier for me to follow the trail they vehicles in front had created for me.
One of the most important thing when driving though snow and ice is the right tires for conditions, and driver's experience. Videos like the one above aren't scientific reports, and made to persuade the viewer. Nothing but smoke and mirrors. There are people out there driving Suzuki Sidekick and Subaru automobiles outperforming all kinds of off-roading trucks.
-One vehicle through deep snow creates a trail for the other to follow.
-One has aggressive tire treads, while the other doesn't.
-One has more ground clearance than the other.
-The tires of both vehicles aren't riding over the snow exactly at the same time, nor the same place.
-Each vehicle is being driven by a different person.
-One vehicle does not have the exact traction control as the other, and one costs about half the price of the other.
-If the tires are spinning, it has nothing to do with the vehicle, just that the tires are unable to provide traction.
-If the truck has a manual transmission, what you want to do is to shift to a higher gear and barely press the gas pedal to let the tires gain the most traction. For example, instead of all the torque available on first gear, switch to second of third gear and release the clutch s l o w l iso the tires stop spinning. If you spin the tires, then the snow melts right on top of the packed snow under the tires,. which in turn creates a layer of very slick ice underneath.
-If the truck has an automatic transmission, leave it on D (drive), but barely press the accelerator to avoid wheel spin.
There are two different snow or mud road conditions: one is encountered by the leading truck, and the other by the truck that follows. That's the way it is when driving through deep snow or mud. For example, years ago I was driving from Fairbanks to Anchorage and it was snowing heavily as I neared the Denali Park area. I was driving a 1987 FWD Honda Civic Is, but the snow was deep enough to rub against the undercarriage and make a lot of noise. However, I was driving on the tracks several automobiles ahead of me were leaving behind. These vehicles were sort of plowing some of the snow with the floor of their vehicles and leaving tracks for me to drive on. It was a lot easier for me to follow the trail they vehicles in front had created for me.
One of the most important thing when driving though snow and ice is the right tires for conditions, and driver's experience. Videos like the one above aren't scientific reports, and made to persuade the viewer. Nothing but smoke and mirrors. There are people out there driving Suzuki Sidekick and Subaru automobiles outperforming all kinds of off-roading trucks.
I'm not clear on why none of what was mentioned matters. For one, you're talking about one leading the other, but are you saying the leading gets an advantage or the following? I would have thought the following. The video has them taking turns doing the leading and following so what is the advantage that's being given and to which vehicle?
Sure, they both supposedly have substandard for snow OEM tires. Which vehicle is obviously being favored here though? Is it the Tundra that's being favored, so the Rivian is doing better despite having worse tires?
Ground clearance is part of the design of a vehicle as are approach and breakover angles. The Rivian was designed to have better specs than the Tundra, so its weird to think that wouldn't matter
There was a price difference between the two vehicles as tested, but it's nowhere near double the cost. I think you work that math out a bit.
No one said this was a scientific report, and I'm not sure how you got an idea of this being one. I didn't claim it and I don't think I saw anything in the video that claimed such either, It was a look at two vehicles in an informal setting, and the opinion that one is clearly better at offroading than the other. There are also some interesting points in the video comments as well. You can try to find a scientific report on this if it's important to you, but this isn't it and I don't know if that'll exist. I do know that ground clearance and better approach and breakover angles probably do help though, and that's probably leading to multiple reviewers and looks at the Rivian R1T going into detail about how great it is for offroading.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-24-2022 at 07:34 AM..
I don't think one performs better than the other. In reality:
a. When the tires of the vehicle in front create a trail for the vehicle behind, the latter has a small advantage over the first.
b. The Rivian's height can be increased over the fixed height of the Tundra, which in turn gives it an advantage over deep snow (more ground clearance)
c. The Rivian tire treads are more aggressive than the tire treads of the Tundra. The more aggressive treads gives it advantage for deep-snow driving.
d. Two drivers cannot drive exactly the same way, not even in two identical trucks. Not even twins have the same level of driving experience. The vehicles aren't being driven exactly at the same speed, nor over the same wheel tracks and road conditions.
The guys from TFL live in Colorado, and while they do more than off-road testing, they are pretty hardcore about the off-road testing and know their stuff. If you watch a lot of their videos, you'll see that they are open to EVs, but they are definitely not biased towards them, if anything I'd say they are more biased towards ICE vehicles.
Regarding the Rivian - it has variable ride height, and that's a legitimate advantage, both off-road and on. You can get high ride height for rock crawling, deep mud or snow, and, unlike a vehicle someone modified with a lift kit - which really hurts the on-road handling, you can *also* get normal ride height with the Rivian, allowing it to handle well on-road too! Suspension stiffness is adjustable as well, which likewise brings advantages for doing well both on-road (stiffer) and off-road (softer). This thing is fairly spendy, and isn't for everyone, but it does have some pretty unique capabilities, especially when you consider the number of vahicles which can handle securely at speed on the road and also go though difficult conditions off-road, all in one vehicle, which I think has been pretty close to zero, up until now.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 01-24-2022 at 10:30 AM..
The guys from TFL live in Colorado, and while they do more than off-road testing, they are pretty hardcore about the off-road testing and know their stuff. If you watch a lot of their videos, you'll see that they are open to EVs, but they are definitely not biased towards them, if anything I'd say they are more biased towards ICE vehicles.
Regarding the Rivian - it has variable ride height, and that's a legitimate advantage, both off-road and on. You can get high ride height for rock crawling, deep mud or snow, and, unlike a vehicle someone modified with a lift kit - which really hurts the on-road handling, you can *also* get normal ride height with the Rivian, allowing it to handle well on-road too! Suspension stiffness is adjustable as well, which likewise brings advantages for doing well both on-road (stiffer) and off-road (softer). This thing is fairly spendy, and isn't for everyone, but it does have some pretty unique capabilities, especially when you consider the number of vahicles which can handle securely at speed on the road and also go though difficult conditions off-road, all in one vehicle, which I think has been pretty close to zero, up until now.
The tires are another legitimate Rivian advantage, but keep in mind that the things I pointed out gives an advantage to the Rivian. That video may persuade people one way or another, specially the ones who don't have experience of driving through mud and snow like that. And keep in mind that serious off-roaders have been using a lot cheaper vehicles than the Rivian and the Tundra. Most off-roaders aren't going to buy a brand new truck to then spend a second fortune rigging it for off roading, nor does the average automobile buyer take his brand new Subaru, Suzuki, etc., off roading through mud and deep snow
The video is nothing but a rigged show like a lot of other videos shown all over the Internet.
The tires are another legitimate Rivian advantage, but keep in mind that the things I pointed out gives an advantage to the Rivian. That video may persuade people one way or another, specially the ones who don't have experience of driving through mud and snow like that. And keep in mind that serious off-roaders have been using a lot cheaper vehicles than the Rivian and the Tundra. Most off-roaders aren't going to buy a brand new truck to then spend a second fortune rigging it for off roading, nor does the average automobile buyer take his brand new Subaru, Suzuki, etc., off roading through mud and deep snow
The video is nothing but a rigged show like a lot of other videos shown all over the Internet.
Tires can be an advntage alright, but how do you even know the Rivian tires are an advantage? And tires can be easily swapped, but a chassis and a drive system can't.
You keep at least implying that the test is meaningless at best or rigged at worst. But other than you declaring it so, I haven't seen you providing any info that you can back up that proves that.
The tires are another legitimate Rivian advantage, but keep in mind that the things I pointed out gives an advantage to the Rivian. That video may persuade people one way or another, specially the ones who don't have experience of driving through mud and snow like that. And keep in mind that serious off-roaders have been using a lot cheaper vehicles than the Rivian and the Tundra. Most off-roaders aren't going to buy a brand new truck to then spend a second fortune rigging it for off roading, nor does the average automobile buyer take his brand new Subaru, Suzuki, etc., off roading through mud and deep snow
The video is nothing but a rigged show like a lot of other videos shown all over the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover
Tires can be an advntage alright, but how do you even know the Rivian tires are an advantage? And tires can be easily swapped, but a chassis and a drive system can't.
You keep at least implying that the test is meaningless at best or rigged at worst. But other than you declaring it so, I haven't seen you providing any info that you can back up that proves that.
Well, it's rigged in the sense that they pitted the Rivian R1T Adventure which has a lot of better specs for offroading against a vehicle that's not as good for such using the Toyota Tundra TRD Off Road. So yea, I guess that's rigged in a way. After all, there are a lot of posting of reviews on off roading with the R1T from different sources and they unanimously state that the R1T is extremely capable when it comes to offroading, so in a sense, it's rigged by pitting what is a vehicle that is generally less capable at such against it. I'd like to see the R1T go up against a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon or some such.
Tires can be an advntage alright, but how do you even know the Rivian tires are an advantage? And tires can be easily swapped, but a chassis and a drive system can't.
You keep at least implying that the test is meaningless at best or rigged at worst. But other than you declaring it so, I haven't seen you providing any info that you can back up that proves that.
According to the video, sower around 4.5 minutes and then around 9.20 or so, the tires on the Rivian are rated for winter and have aggressive treads, unlike the Tundra. Winter and mud tires have more aggressive treads than the average all-season tires. The same for all-terrain tires.
Now, both the Rivian and Tundra are just too heavy. There are a lot of lighter, older, and cheaper vehicles that are used for off road and snow roading as you can see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ips592vKhQ8
Obviously too expensive and too short of a bed to really be a work truck, but interesting to try.
I think if there was ever a cheaper and less plush version of the vehicle that was made for work fleets, it'd be interesting to see a miniature toolshed shuttle being made for the gear tunnel.
Tailgate design adds a few inches relative to midget beds, plus it's supposedly got a decent weight rating. I'd still rather have the wheels on an ATV in the bed or less of a snowmobile hanging out back but it should be fine. Just in general tailgates are a lot more beefy nowadays than the flimsy '80s tailgates... probably because the beds are so short they know they're going to end up with weight riding on the tailgates.
Trailers. Big fan of trailers, easier to load/unload, easiest way to avoid your fancy urban cowboy pickemup truck looking like it's ever done anything more robust than carry a few packages of Costco toilet paper as well. U-Haul is pretty much everywhere. Trailers aren't very good but it's $10-25 a day or whatever so not expensive. Alternatively, with a 16-18 foot channel frame flat bed you can do pretty much anything. Walls are easy to build up with some old pallets, not as good for that as an enclosed cargo trailer but more versatile. Range would be the bad one. E.g., the Rivian employee that came down from Detroit area to CA was stopping every 100 miles. Obviously it's a crap choice for someone that's looking to do hotshotting as it can't tow much and definitely can't tow much very far but for Joe Suburban who might want to pick up some sod, go to the lumbar yard, maybe put in a patio he doesn't necessarily need to go very far from the garden supply store, tool rental, hardware store, or lumbar yard. Trailer is a good way of both not scratching his shiny toy as well as being able to haul something.
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