Top 10 NBA Players ( Post Jordan) (fight, coach, games, Bulls)

[rigas]

Originally Posted by slo1318

You mean outside the NBA. Neither has traditional HOF stats, but they have titles.

i mean total body of work.
tony has 1 more year of nba experience than manu does, thats it.


manu outside the nba
FIBA Americas Championship MVP (2001)
Euroleague champion (2001)
Euroleague Finals MVP (2001)
All-Euroleague First Team (2002)
Italian Cup MVP (2002)
2× Italian League MVP (2001–2002)
2× Olimpia de Oro (2003–2004)
Diamond Konex Award (2010)
50 Greatest Euroleague Contributors (2008)
olympics, 2004 gold, 2008 bronze
FIBA world cup, silver 2002
FIBA americas championship, bronze 1999, gold 2001/2011, silver 2003
south american championship, silver 1999

that alone will get him into the HOF, then add
4× NBA champion (2003, 2005, 2007, 2014)
2× NBA All-Star (2005, 2011)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2008, 2011)
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2008)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2003)
and hes a lock first ballot.

tony outside
FIBA EuroBasket MVP (2013)
2× FIBA Europe Player of the Year (2013, 2014)
2× All-Europeans Player of the Year (2013, 2014)
2× Euroscar Award (2007, 2013)
FIBA Europe U-18 Championship MVP (2000)
2× L'Équipe Champion of Champions (2003, 2013)
FIBA eurobasket gold 2013, silver 2011, bronze 2005
FIBA europe under 18, gold 2000

nba
4× NBA champion (2003, 2005, 2007, 2014)
NBA Finals MVP (2007)
6× NBA All-Star (2006–2007, 2009, 2012–2014)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2012–2014)
All-NBA Third Team (2009)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2002)
NBA Skills Challenge champion (2012)
NBA Shooting Stars champion (2006)


tony has had a slightly better nba career, mainly due to manu coming in older, and taking a reserve role for so long.
again only 2 players in basketball history have ever won, gold at the olympics, an nba title and a euro league title, manu and bill bradley

[Mathguy]

The bottom line is neither Manu or Tony get into the HOF based solely upon their nBA career.

I agree with that except maybe Tony might squeek in but doubtful.

At least I don't have anyone screaming laker hater anymore for explaining how someone like Ginobli easily makes the HOF.

[Keeros318]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

The bottom line is neither Manu or Tony get into the HOF based solely upon their nBA career.

I agree with that except maybe Tony might squeek in but doubtful.

At least I don't have anyone screaming laker hater anymore for explaining how someone like Ginobli easily makes the HOF.

It's hard to predict the future, but if you project out Tony Parker's numbers for the rest of his career, he will have some very impressive stats in the NBA alone. And that's aside from the championships and awards he's won. I think by the time he is ready to retire, Tony Parker will have accomplished enough in the NBA ALONE to get into the HOF. Manu is different because he's been a reserve for most of his career, and even so, he's put up very good career stats. But his role on the team was not as prominent as Tony's, so his NBA stats will be lower by the team he walks away, but his international accomplishments will put him over the top as a HOF as well.

It's a good point you make with regards to international play... I remember growing up my brothers would always talk about Oscar Schmidt, who is a Brazilian native and played during the 80s and early 90s I believe. My brothers would always tell me how Oscar torched this team and how Oscar torched that team... Even in the Olympics, Oscar destroyed the U.S. team in the late 80s, although I don't think Brazil won. But his performance was dominating against the U.S. A few years ago I saw him get inducted into the HOF and he NEVER PLAYED A MINUTE OF NBA BASKETBALL, to my knowledge.

[slo1318]

^^^of course players make it without the NBA, but being dominant in the NBA is the biggest achievement for a basketball player being by far the best league in the world

[rigas]

i would say it is "easier" to get into the hall of fame with the nba exposure, but doesnt make you a lock clearly. over season ball is becoming more and more prevalent and i think we will start to see more euro players making it in based on just their euro or a nba-euro combo like manu.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by Keeros318

It's hard to predict the future, but if you project out Tony Parker's numbers for the rest of his career, he will have some very impressive stats in the NBA alone. And that's aside from the championships and awards he's won. I think by the time he is ready to retire, Tony Parker will have accomplished enough in the NBA ALONE to get into the HOF. Manu is different because he's been a reserve for most of his career, and even so, he's put up very good career stats. But his role on the team was not as prominent as Tony's, so his NBA stats will be lower by the team he walks away, but his international accomplishments will put him over the top as a HOF as well.

It's a good point you make with regards to international play... I remember growing up my brothers would always talk about Oscar Schmidt, who is a Brazilian native and played during the 80s and early 90s I believe. My brothers would always tell me how Oscar torched this team and how Oscar torched that team... Even in the Olympics, Oscar destroyed the U.S. team in the late 80s, although I don't think Brazil won. But his performance was dominating against the U.S. A few years ago I saw him get inducted into the HOF and he NEVER PLAYED A MINUTE OF NBA BASKETBALL, to my knowledge.

Yep. Oscar Schmidt was a beast. I remember watching him in the Olympics a looong time ago and he was awesome.

You might be right about Tony but he's going to need to have a couple more all-nba seasons IMO and he's a 32yo PG so that window is closing fast. It's possible but if he makes it we will never know if his additional Euro stuff pushed him over the top or not.

IMO upon full reflection if I have to wager right now, I think he makes it.

[slo1318]

Tony makes it because of the Spurs titles, he doesnt need any overseas extras.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by slo1318

Tony makes it because of the Spurs titles, he doesnt need any overseas extras.

You are probably right the more I think about it. The Finals MVP is a pretty huge deal to go along with rings and the all-nba selections.

Basketball reference has a simple algorithm that looks at acheivements of past HOFers and gives players a % chance of making the HOF based upon their acheivements and derived weights.

Parker is at 93% which is typically a sure thing. I've seen guys make it with lower.

[rigas]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

You are probably right the more I think about it. The Finals MVP is a pretty huge deal to go along with rings and the all-nba selections.

Basketball reference has a simple algorithm that looks at acheivements of past HOFers and gives players a % chance of making the HOF based upon their acheivements and derived weights.

Parker is at 93% which is typically a sure thing. I've seen guys make it with lower.

the problem with that system is it doesnt take anything but NBA into account. even states must have 400 nba games to be eligible.
it shows manu as a 20% chance which we both know is terribly low.

[slo1318]

Originally Posted by rigas

the problem with that system is it doesnt take anything but NBA into account. even states must have 400 nba games to be eligible.
it shows manu as a 20% chance which we both know is terribly low.

The point I was making was that Tony makes it off of his NBA resume, its a tad stronger than Manu's resume, NBA only.