Top 10 NBA Players ( Post Jordan) (playoffs, MVP, finals, win)
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but by your above standards he should be listed as one of the greats
i teach brazilian jiu jitsu and we have a saying (a quote from rickson gracie really) "if size mattered, the elephant would be the king of the jungle"
Completely unreleated to your post. But if you look at wildlife behavioral patterns, you'll see that Lions almost NEVER mess with elephants unless they've been starving and are desperate.
Wrong again bro. You're starting to embarrass yourself. PPG = points per game. Over 10 seasons Shaq played in 661 games and scored 18582 points. Doing the math that is 28.1 PPG....as if the difference between 27.91 and 28.1 even matters anyway. Seriously - how old are you? 18 or 19?
Just. Stop. Trying. To. Debate.
Correct! And hilarious to point out a difference of 27.91 vs 28.1 (if that were even the case).
Those 10 years are just plain dominating vs anything Duncan did. Duncan is great, dont get me wrong, but he's clearly been the beneficiary of great teams and organization and coach. Shaq had that to, just for not as long.
I've seen Duncan dominate against plenty of people....again....what about when he bounced Kobe AND Shaq from the playoffs on their own court?
Is that impossible? lol.
No, Detroit did it to. Utah did it to. As Ive stated Duncan has benefited from great teams/coach/organization. He's not as individually dominating as Shaq n Kobe.
No, Detroit did it to. Utah did it to. As Ive stated Duncan has benefited from great teams/coach/organization. He's not as individually dominating as Shaq n Kobe.
Here is Duncan closing out the Lakers 2003 playoffs series....
<sorry link was bad but you can find it using the other one>
37-16 with 64% shooting.
Here he is winning the NBA finals....2 blocks shy of a quadruple double......
He averaged 25-15-5-3 during the playoffs that championship year while playing elite level defense....yet somehow that's not dominant?
Shaq had 31-15-3-2 as roughly his best playoffs stats ever so he did more scoring but Duncan assisted better and played better defense.
I think you just have a bad perception bias because Duncan just quietly killed people.
Im assuming thats Duncans best ever. It still shows Shaq was more dominant. He was feared in a way no other was. I'd have to give Shaq the nod over Duncan, and I just dont think its that close. Doesnt take away from Duncan, but Shaq was just better.
Im assuming thats Duncans best ever. It still shows Shaq was more dominant. He was feared in a way no other was. I'd have to give Shaq the nod over Duncan, and I just dont think its that close. Doesnt take away from Duncan, but Shaq was just better.
well you've anchored your argument in how you feel and emotions like "feared" heck maybe Shaquille has farfernugen too and crazy cray cray skiiiiilz.
Shaquille has better stats and was just more dominant. It's easy to see.
duncan had an additional 2 apg, 1 bpg and the MUCH better defense which definitely covers the ONLY category he had an advantage in and that was ppg which was also padded by the other team fouling him like crazy down the stretch....which wasn't a compliment to his game.
Besides, Tim Duncan has pizazz. Shaq doesn't have piazazz.
duncan had an additional 2 apg, 1 bpg and the MUCH better defense which definitely covers the ONLY category he had an advantage in and that was ppg which was also padded by the other team fouling him like crazy down the stretch....which wasn't a compliment to his game.
Besides, Tim Duncan has pizazz. Shaq doesn't have piazazz.
How do you adjust the numbers for Shaq being double and triple teamed more than any player in history? How do you explain him having one of, if not the highest PER in history?
Shaq shot 57% in the '00 playoffs - incredible for a player averaging 30+ ppg.
In the '00 finals, Shaq went for 38/17/61% - that's just mind numbingly dominant.
Shaq backed up the '00 Finals with a 33/16/5/57% performance in '01.
Shaq backed up the '01 Finals with a 36.3/12/4/60% performance in '02.
If you want to say Duncan's longevity gives him the edge career wise - fine. But if you're asking who was more dominant at their best - gotta go with O'Neal.
Duncan actually had a relatively bad finals in his prime - in '07 he went for 18.3/11.5/3.8 on 45% shooting. Tony Parker won finals MVP. 30 yr old Shaq would've made Illgauskas look like a weak school boy.
Heck, in 2005 Ginobili could've easily won finals MVP over Duncan (some say should have). Ginobili averaged 19/6/4/49% in 36 mpg. Duncan averaged 21/14/2/42% in 41 mpg. Only two times in NBA history has the win shares leader for a team not received finals MVP - '10 Gasol and '05 Ginobili.
If dominance is your goal, you probably take Shaq over any player ever.
How do you adjust the numbers for Shaq being double and triple teamed more than any player in history? How do you explain him having one of, if not the highest PER in history? how do we quantify that he was doubled and tripled more than anyone? is this another "because i saw it" argument? 3rd highest PER, behind jordan and lebron, and only .25 ahead of david robinson and wilt.
Shaq shot 57% in the '00 playoffs - incredible for a player averaging 30+ ppg. its a pretty telling sign when your FG average is higher than your free throw %, not just higher, 11% higher. free throws are fundamentals 101.
hell steve kerr averaged to shoot 3 pointers at the same % as shaqs FT %. stef curry shot 1% lower from 3 also.
In the '00 finals, Shaq went for 38/17/61% - that's just mind numbingly dominant. against whom? dale davis and smits. not exactly world beating competition.
Shaq backed up the '00 Finals with a 33/16/5/57% performance in '01. motombo, maybe the best center shaq played against in any finals. motombo had his best playoffs/finals when the defensive monster that is shaq allowed motombo, a career 9/9.5 guy average 17/12.
Shaq backed up the '01 Finals with a 36.3/12/4/60% performance in '02.
vs jason collins and maccullock, the only 2 "centers" the nets had.
If you want to say Duncan's longevity gives him the edge career wise - fine. But if you're asking who was more dominant at their best - gotta go with O'Neal.
Duncan actually had a relatively bad finals in his prime - in '07 he went for 18.3/11.5/3.8 on 45% shooting. Tony Parker won finals MVP. 30 yr old Shaq would've made Illgauskas look like a weak school boy.
Heck, in 2005 Ginobili could've easily won finals MVP over Duncan (some say should have). Ginobili averaged 19/6/4/49% in 36 mpg. Duncan averaged 21/14/2/42% in 41 mpg. Only two times in NBA history has the win shares leader for a team not received finals MVP - '10 Gasol and '05 Ginobili.
If dominance is your goal, you probably take Shaq over any player ever.
lol the only people saying manu should have won finals mvp are the ignorant, uninformed or duncan haters. which category do you fall into?
you should learn about miss matches also. why exactly would duncan need to blow up Z when tony parker had boobie gibson on him? lets not leave those two and a half blocks per game duncan averaged out of his stats either. or his one and a half steals.
shaq vs duncna head to head they had 32 games.
duncan was 22/12.1/2.7
shaq was 21.7/10.6/1.7
tim 8% lower fg, 10% higher from the line. shaq also averaged about 4 fouls to times 3
playoffs head to head 30 games
duncan 25.6/13/3.8
shaq 22.4/12.8/2.2
tim shot about 4% lower % from the field, and nearly 20% higher from the line.
so while shaq put up crazy numbers against weak to mediocre defenders, his size, strength didnt effect tim duncan laying defense on him. and lets not kid around, tim played shaq straight up 90% of the time.
Last edited by rigas; 09-15-2015 at 09:46 AM..
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