Building in Nanawale Estates

[hotzcatz]

Do the tax office and the Building Department talk to each other yet? The tax folks are really, really good at finding buildings and taxing folks for them whereas the Building Department doesn't seem quite so aggressive. If they ever team up, though, that could be a complete end to unpermitted structures.

[melro52]

We're planning a move to the Big Island but Hawaiian Paradise Park a little north. We visited and will visit again. First, find your lava zone and procuring homeowners insurance. Find out if your lots are sitting on lava tubes. Excavation can be $2k to $20k based on the level and what's running underneath. Albezia trees need to go but they like to sprout up again. Even if you clear your lots effectively, if the surrounding lots are full of them, good luck in a bad wind storm. They splinter and will skewer everything on your property. You need to find out if you're in a major water stream area too. It rains a lot and downpours, is there a flash stream that shows up through your property? Finally, most contractors will tell you how to deal with termites, specially treated wood, treating the ground, etc.

I don't think the cost of water containment or septic system is that much initially at all. If I had to replace my septic system in Michigan, it would cost a heck of a lot more. BUT, and there is always a but, I only have to have my system sucked out every 2-3 years. In HI, because of downpours, the septic system might get overwhelmed and need to be pumped out QUARTERLY to a tune of the same I pay here $200-$300. That could run $1200 year maintenance. The water containment needs maintenance too, at least annually. If you spend more on your containment with a metal top, sometimes insurance gives a break for that because the fire department can use their hoses directly on that type of lid.

You might want to find out about going solar too. Whole systems aren't that expensive. There are Hilo contractors that also do container homes quite beautifully. And there are really nice post and pier package homes. I know Time Warner cable is available in HPP, but some areas are sketchy for cell phone use. That would require a visit to your spot to find out. I might buy my own USB dongle for the Internet just in case. It works like a flash drive but connects to the Internet via satellite. Any hot spot will do.

Lastly, find out everything about your location. Some places are built on fairly new lava shelves that may not fair well. How far above sea level are you. How far from the ocean in the event of a hurricane/tsunami. Can you get out of your sub easily.

You could get caught on so many things. Research your area historically too and Good Luck.

[OpenD]

In addition to reading the views of this general and personal overview, I suggest doing a good Search here on the topics mentioned. They've all been extensively discussed previously.

Originally Posted by melro52

I don't think the cost of water containment or septic system is that much initially at all.

Septic systems in Puna start about $7,500 and go up, depending on the soil or rock composition of the lot. Building permits are keyed to the size of the house and number of residents expected to occupy the domicile.

Rainwater catchment (not containment) is used by about a third of Big Island residents for their domestic water supply. The College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources (CTAHR) in Hilo publishes a Rainwater Catchment Manual which is considered the top resource of its kind in the world. Any Hawaii resident can obtain a free hard copy from them, and anyone in the world can access a free PDF copy online. This is a must-read if you are buying a property which already has a rainwater catchment system, or considering a new installation, because it provides well researched info and debunks much of the common misinformation and mythology floating around.

http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/rm-12.pdf

If I had to replace my septic system in Michigan, it would cost a heck of a lot more. BUT, and there is always a but, I only have to have my system sucked out every 2-3 years. In HI, because of downpours, the septic system might get overwhelmed and need to be pumped out QUARTERLY to a tune of the same I pay here $200-$300. That could run $1200 year maintenance.

That last sounds more like a description of a cesspit, aka holding tank... similar to the traditional cesspool, but with sealed sides and bottom which prevent fluid leakage to the surrounding soil. The County is no longer issuing permits for cesspools outside agricultural areas, so if you can't get good enough perc (percolation) for a septic tank... which renders raw sewage safe, by an organic digestion process, which releases safe effluent to the surrounding soil and collects settled solids for pumping out via a "Honey Dipper" service, typically every few years... then cesspit it must be. And cesspits do require regular pump-outs.

The water containment needs maintenance too, at least annually.

More like monthly, at least, per the CTAHR Rainwater Catchment manual. A typical schedule includes bi-weekly addition of chlorine (disinfectant) and sodium bicarbonate (buffering of rainwater's natural acidity), quarterly replacement of wound-fiber grit and sediment filters, annual water testing (CTAHR provides free testing for basics, private labs provide more comprehensive analysis), annual replacement of UV lamps, if that form of sterilization is used, and physical cleanout of the tank every 2 - 3 years. It's definitely not a "set-it-and-leave-it" system, but if you have no access to county water it is the only viable alternative to having water hauled, which costs about $225 per 4,000 gallon tanker load right now.

If you spend more on your containment with a metal top, sometimes insurance gives a break for that because the fire department can use their hoses directly on that type of lid.

Better read the manual, because this part is really garbled.

In fact the choice of a mesh roof vs a solid roof on a catchment tank has nothing at all to do with insurance, nor does it affect insurance or fire protection. A mesh roof on a 24' diameter tank will afford you nearly 500 sq ft additional collection area for your system, if you need it, and it is far cheaper than a solid top, although it needs to be replaced every few years. But the more expensive solid top is far cleaner, reducing volcanic ash and other contaminants, and eliminating bird and rodent trespass. Cleaner because a well designed rooftop collection system includes a "first flush" diverter which allows the first part of the rainfall to wash down the whole system before collection begins, whereas a mesh top is just open to whatever falls from the sky 24/7.

The link from catchment to insurance is simply that having a 10,000 gallon water tank or pool on the premises can earn you a discount on fire insurance with many companies. Fire fighters can throw a siphon hose into either to augment what they bring in a tanker. But the cheapest and easiest investment you can make in terms of fire safety is to install the recommended Fire Department standard hose fitting where the FD can get to it. It's actually a County-wide Fire Department requirement on all new construction, although enforcement has been nonexistent. But really, for the small expense involved, why wouldn't anyone want to do it?

You might want to find out about going solar too. Whole systems aren't that expensive.

Erkkk. That depends entirely on what you consider expensive, and what standard of living you have. Is $30,000 "not expensive" to you? That seems to be a kind of a middle-of-the-road residential installation these days. More? Less? Well that depends ENTIRELY on an individual's expectations and standards. The devil, as they say, is in the details,

I might buy my own USB dongle for the Internet just in case. It works like a flash drive but connects to the Internet via satellite. Any hot spot will do.

Boy, howdy, I have read and re-read this half a dozen times and I still don't understand it.

Lastly, find out everything about your location. Some places are built on fairly new lava shelves that may not (sic) fair well.

With this, I fear, you are truly lost in the weeds. This makes no sense to me at all. New land created by volcanic action within recent history belongs to the State, and you can't buy it.

[hotzcatz]

A "dongle" is a bit of hardware - sort of like an electronic key is how I've seen them used before - that hangs onto a computer for various purposes. In this case, it would attach to a USB port and get internet via satellite is how I'm interpreting it. Not sure why you'd need a hot spot to connect via satellite, though.

Generally houses in Hawaii don't have true mainland style "excavation". They get leveled and have a driveway and house area cleared, but very rarely will there by any digging to much of any depth. No basements generally. I think the new code calls for 12" of concrete footings (the edge of a concrete pad) below grade with, was it 6" or 9" above grade?, so there will be more "excavation" than before, but only by an extra foot or so around the perimeter of a new house pad. We have no freeze lines to worry about.

For sewage handling, it's all done on by the homeowners, there's no municipal sewerage in HPP. Actually, there's very little of it anywhere on the whole island. In most areas, but not quite all, cesspools (a big hole in the ground with raw sewage piped into it from the house) are no longer approved. Now they have "septic systems" which are a big plastic bubble set into the ground with a "leach field" of perforated pipes which let the liquids seep out. Generally, the problem with septic systems on the Big Island is not lack of "perk" but too much of it. If you install a septic system in a lot of areas in Puna, you'll have to add cubic yards of cinder to slow it down so it doesn't all immediately vanish. They don't get pumped out very often if at all from what I've noticed. I can't think of anyone I've known who has had to have their system pumped out, but I've seen one of those pumper trucks before, so there must be some systems which need it occasionally.

We can get six inches of rain in an hour or more and it will all be gone pretty quickly, the ground is very porous in most places. If you're looking for land in Puna, one of the first thing I'd look for (after checking current and historical lava flows) is if it has any soil on it or not. Many of the areas don't have any soil, just a thin layer of compost over lava rock. Look at the trees on the land if there are any. Trees have similar shapes above ground as they do below. If you see a lot of skinny narrow trees, you can figure they are growing in cracks in the lava. If they are wide trees with very flat crowns, they are most likely growing in a layer of compost & leaf litter on top of the lava.

Not all the new lava automatically goes to the state. Depending on where the new lava is, you may already own it. If new lava flows within your property lines, then it's your lava. If it creates new land area, though, outside of any established property lines, then it's new state land. If you pick the wrong location, not only will lava over run your land, but your previously oceanfront lot may become quite distant from the ocean. Although considering the amount of lava that would take, it's nowhere you'd be living any time soon anyway.

[gmayardley]

I think if you do some research at the courthouse, you will find that the legal CC&Rs on Nanawale expired many years ago, and that the restrictions they are placing on people now are bogus and cannot be enforced. Check it out.