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The cost comparison between NH and areas closer to Boston is tricky. The reason is that it may be difficult to tell what will happen in the future. At present, the overall cost of living in NH is lower than it is closer to Boston. True, the property taxes are high in NH, but remember that these are tax RATES, not absolute total tax costs. In general, the cost of a house, and therefore the property valuation, will be substantially lower in NH than in the MA suburbs close to Boston. This means that even though every 1,000 dollars of property value in NH will be taxed at a higher rate than it will in most MA towns, fewer 1,000 dollars will be taxed at that higher rate, so there is not so much difference in the total bill. For example (I don't know if these numbers are precisely accurate, but they give you the idea), if a property in MA is valued at 400k and taxed at $12/k, the total propety tax is $4,800. If a similar property in NH is taxed at $30/k, but the property is valued at 200k, the tax is $6,000. Figure in the fact that NH has no general sales tax, nor any tax on earned income, and you probably actually come out ahead in NH. A close examination of the particular areas you're considering, figuring in the difference in commuting costs as well as total tax, will give you an idea which areas are most cost-effective, but, if you're looking at towns just over the border in NH, not incurring the cost of commuting from way up in the lakes region, you'll probably find that your net costs are lower than they would be closer to Boston, inside MA.
Now the tricky part: NH politics may be changing. This has something to do with your question about why the tension when so many people living in NH are actually from MA. One reason for the tension between the two states probably is simple old-fashioned city vs. country tensions. Eastern and central MA are heavily urban, and of course Boston is a major city, while NH is less populated, and is mostly a state of towns and villages, and a few small cities. MA people tend to be kind of snobbish toward all the northern New England states, and to regard their people as hicks, and, understandably, the people up north resent this. Native New Hampshirites seem to regard MA transplants as invaders, moving in just to take advantage of cheaper housing in NH, while bringing their snooty city ways with them. New Hampshirites also are concerned that the transplants may be bringing their MA big-government politics with them as well. Somewhere else on this website, I saw something about a study (at the University of New Hampshire, I think) that showed that the transplants actually tend to lean heavily Republican and are crossing the border in part to escape the politics of MA. On the other hand, the fact is that in recent years, at the same time that there has been a shift of population from MA to NH, there have been more Democrats elected in NH than has been the case in the past. The concern as it relates to costs would be that, if there is a basic shift in politics, there could be a push for new taxes--an income tax or sales tax, for example--while NH natives want to keep the government power in local hands by maintaining local property taxes, so that the whole thing could turn into a high-tax mess. I live in MA, so I can't give you a really good feel for the inside view of NH, but raising this issue on sites like this, and with anyone you know in NH, may give you a better feel for where NH is headed. For now and the near future, however, even though each individual situation is different, in general, total costs will probably be lower in NH.
?? No, MA is the most liberal state. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone call MA conservative. Although now that you mention it, we do have some pretty conservative liquor laws and Western Mass is still pretty conservative. Overall MA is still one of the largest democratic strongholds in the nation, while NH is predominantly republican.
Politics aside, MA is what I would consider to be very conservative socially and in many laws and town policies.
NH seems to be liberal in their way of thinking and the whole 'being away from the city' way of thinking.
Being from NY which is extremely liberal, it is hard to say Massachusetts and liberal in the same sentence...
One of the reasons you might find MA less liberal is their Commonwealth status and hence some of the long standing laws and rulings. NH is far less liberal politically but libertarian in thinking--less government control.
Words are so tricky, but this is my take on it and I am also someone that lived in both NYC, MA and very close to the NH border in VT.
I realize that anything in Boston will be more than New Hampshire which is why I am comparing New Hampshire prices to the suburbs of Boston, like Needham,Arlington, or the North Shore. Can you buy something of equal value of these places for less, despite the high prop taxes in New Hampshire??
Another factor in commuting from NH to Boston for work is the lifestyle differences between the two. Boston has the best medical and culture but it is more fast-paced and to me anyway's, stressed out.
New Hampshire is more laid back, there is still plenty to do but just different types of stuff.
No offense to people in MA as I grew up and still have family in MA but from my perspective people in NH are for the most part more friendly and have more patience and are less stressed out. Maybe that is because there is essentially less traffic and more space.
I actually love Boston but don't want to live there.
There is a reason why people work in Boston, (that is where the money is) and either live or vacation in NH. Just a personal perspective.
I would not live in NH because there are not enough jobs there. Quality of life is not sitting in a car. Almost everyone I know that lives in Southern NH works in MA. It doesn't make sense to me. I live in MA now and my husband has a 35 minute commute to work.
Thanks everyone for your different perspectives. I think the best of both worlds is Ma. and if you want laid back but work in Boston, you can have both.
One of the reasons you might find MA less liberal is their Commonwealth status and hence some of the long standing laws and rulings. NH is far less liberal politically but libertarian in thinking--less government control.
Words are so tricky, but this is my take on it and I am also someone that lived in both NYC, MA and very close to the NH border in VT.
I agree. MA has some obscure laws that date back very long ago. I have never lived in NH just for being to far off the beaten path. I also agree that many NH'ers commute to Boston and probably relocated there back 10 years ago when it was drastically cheaper.
Do you really think Massachusetts's laws are that rigid and obscure? I don't know, I'd have to think about that one good when it comes to these two states. I grew up in Mass. and moved to NH about 15 years ago. My parents and siblings have been here longer and living here for a good 30 years now and I remember my parents actually moved here to get away from the politics in Massachusetts, if they could? They would have moved further away because that was their number one beef back in the middle 70's. They wanted to have what the New Hampshire natives have and want to keep what's here even right now, to this very day. They actually agree with their way of life and philosophy 100% on various issues like what you're discussing here. They used to get so ticked at a few of the natives when they ranted and raved about the Mass. people moving to the state. Well guess what they'd shoot back to them? All of these natives kids? Where do they want to move to? They want to live right in that City of Boston of ours! To me, it's just a big vicious circle and a lot of the natives and residence of NH just don't GET it up here! Believe me, it's a hoot to listen to it all and their ranting & raving when half of their own kids are moving left and right down to the City of Boston renting and buying high end condo's where the 3 deckers used to be! Give us all a break, it's hysterically funny to me now!
On another note, remember that case with Pamela Smart that set up the boys in her video class to murder her husband and there was the movie about it several years ago? Let me tell you something. That girl will not see the light of day. In this state she got life without the possibility of parole. Now if that happened in Massachusetts? She would have gotten another trial and she'd be out walking around as a free woman right now. She won't though, NOT in this state, she won't AND she probably won't ever, due to the laws they have in the state of New Hampshire. Get caught murdering, maiming or raping or stealing in this state? It's completely a different tune and an all together different ball game when it comes to the court system and how it all takes place, as opposed to Mass. So I would have to disagree with the people when they say on here that Massachusetts' laws are so obscure and they're more liberal in the state of New Hampshire? I don't know, I'd have to think about that one good, after living here all these years!
This is just one example, there's many many differences between the two states and there philosophy of life in general and how the cards are played out as opposed to how they're played out in Mass. It's definitely laid back more in New Hampshire and there's NO question about that. You absolutely get to know all the back roads and side country roads and short cuts to avoid the summer crowds and all their traffic that comes with the territory. AND trust me, you get SO used to it and when you end up going back down to the City or the outer suburbs of Boston? You realize it's definitely SO SO congested all year round, no matter when you visit down that way! It's extremely more packed now with people and traffic and noise and all that, more than ever before. It's amazing that every one survives the way they do! I never thought I'd be saying this, where I'm from the city of Boston myself most of my life and no matter what, I'll still stick up for that wonderful City and always will support it for the rest of my entire life, no matter WHERE I live! I just think there's a huge change and quite a turn around now with the thousands upon thousands of new people living in New England, now more than ever before. There's nothing wrong with that? It's just a magnificient "turn around" from life the way it was before in New England. There's new ideas, new philosophies on life, all for the good though, you know what I mean? There's no comparison as to how it was back in the early 90's; back in the 80's and beyond and there's no rhyme or reason for it, it's evidently part of life and we all have to go with the flow and go along for the ride, I guess. It's a short life you know, we just have to enjoy it all before it all disappears again around here right before our eyes!
As far as working in the state of New Hampshire, you're absolutely correct with regard to employment in this state. I was never impressed with places of employment here. I can't believe what a lot of them will do to people, I'm in a position where I don't have to take it as a lot of people need it I don't at all. May be it's me, where I'm extremely spoiled because I worked in Boston at a Fortune 100, large corporation for years and then retired fairly young and now work seasonally in Mass. and I wouldn't work in any other state for as long as I'm living in our New England region. Mass. pays their employees well. There's no question about it. The benefit's are there too in some, not all companies in Mass. You just have to know where to look for employment and it depends on what your field is too of course.
It's absolutely cheaper to live in New Hampshire, for a fact. Right NOW it is any way, it may NOT be down the road from what we're hearing, so remember that one! YES, I agree the state is definitely shifting and not for the better. I don't think they should go with the state income tax, but that's just my thoughts on it, right now, I could change my mind on it as we get in to this more in the voting booths. There's more people that really really want the state income tax than don't want it and they'll win in the end and we're about sure of that one up here. It's certainly quite a controversial issue.
Here's an example of the property tax; when I first got my house back in the late 70's, the taxes were something like $700 a year. Now for the same house, one little addition added out back? The property taxes are running a little over $2000 a quarter. It's a no win situation. You pay in one way, but you don't pay in another. I can tell you that you absolutely save a LOT when you shop for food. We only go to the Market Baskets though!!!! A lot of families, young ones and newbies really like Shaw's and the Super Stop & Shops that are springing up here and there and that's okay for families that aren't looking for bargains the way the rest of us around here are! You really can't beat Market Basket prices and they have brand names the same as there competitors!
As far as clothes shopping? Well I'm a nut for Marshall's, TJ Maxx, Talbot's online and I'll go down to Mass. to Chico's because they don't have any of those stores "up here" yet near us on the seacoast, (some day they will, I'm sure!) We're finally getting a Christmas Tree Shop for those that care that read this stuff AND we can't wait!!! It's going to be late summer 2008 from what we're hearing and it's going off of Woodbury Ave. in Portsmouth. (yippee!) We finally have a Target like down in Mass., it's up in
Somersworth. We have a Kohl's, AND we're getting another one down in Seabrook, another one I said!
(another yippee yahooee!)
All the best to all of you debating this issue with these two fine states. Lastly, I wanted to make sure you knew this one. In all the years living in this state? I only met TWO actual natives that were actually born in this state. Of course that's MY generation. My nieces and nephews are all New Hampshire natives now where they were born here and also so aren't all their friends. BUT all their parents? Guess where they're mostly from? Where else? The state of Massachusetts, some from New York and some are from Connecticut and Rhode Island and beyond.
Just my two cents!
Last edited by CityGirl52; 07-19-2007 at 06:10 PM..
As far as clothes shopping? Well I'm a nut for Marshall's, TJ Maxx, Talbot's online and I'll go down to Mass. to Chico's because they don't have any of those stores "up here" yet near us on the seacoast, (some day they will, I'm sure!) We're finally getting a Christmas Tree Shop for those that care that read this stuff AND we can't wait!!! It's going to be late summer 2008 from what we're hearing and it's going off of Woodbury Ave. in Portsmouth. (yippee!) We finally have a Target like down in Mass., it's up in
Somersworth. We have a Kohl's, AND we're getting another one down in Seabrook, another one I said!
(another yippee yahooee!)
Just my two cents!
Actually, isn't there a TJ Maxx and Marshall's near each other in Portsmouth? What's it called.. on Woodbury Ave?
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NH housing costs.
