Why is BPS so bad and what should be done to improve it? (Boston: public school, calculated)

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by dazzleman

There was so much blame to go around for the whole situation. I do think that Garrity's big mistake was ordering a rushed implement of a deeply flawed state plan that was guaranteed to create more problems than it solved, and was deeply harmful to the people it purported to help. As I understand it, the state plan was drawn up in a fit of pique and intended to inflict maximum pain on the people of Southie. As it turned out, that wasn't a great strategy and the blowback was fierce.

Garrity gave his decision at the end of June and ordered implementation by September. There was nowhere near enough time to pull it off correctly. I think it was highly irresponsible not to give it a bit more thought and more time, and draw some more people into it to get their buy-in to whatever the plan would be, rather than present it as fiat that was highly profitable to oppose and became a symbol of hated judicial autocracy to many in Boston. And it probably would have been wiser to skirt Southie mostly or completely, since their high school was garbage anyway and the black kids would have gotten no real tangible benefit from going there even without the violence.

Did you ever read the book "Common Ground" by Anthony Lukas? I read it as an (inadvertent) criticism of busing and a lot of the people involved. It chronicled three families through the busing crisis - a well-off white "limousine liberal" family living in the early stage gentrification of the South End, who favored busing and living in truly economically and racially integrated neighborhoods, a poor white family in the Bunker Hill projects who opposed busing, and a black family living in subsidized housing in the South End that was ambivalent about busing.

The way it ended up being presented, the well off white family who favored busing cleverly found a way to shield their own children from most of the impact that the poor white families had to face. Within 2 years, they abandoned the South End because of the persistent crime problem there and moved to Newton, so that doesn't say much about their supposedly great commitment to integrated learning and living. The poor white family in the projects was far from privileged and their own high school - Charlestown High School - was far from a center of academic excellence. The situation was accurately described at the time as people "fighting over who sits next to whom in some of the worst schools in the country." And the way things turned out with the black family presented, let's just say that there's good reason that many people wouldn't have been thrilled to have them in close proximity as neighbors or as schoolmates.

It was a very complicated situation that was handled poorly at every level.

You have to drop blame on racist council members and school committee members. I don’t care what limousine white liberals did. Doesn’t matter to BOSTONIANS. It’s just a whatbout used by racist whites in southie. They all knew they had to integrate since 1954. Then they act like summer of 1974 they first got the news. FOHWTBS. Black propel were ambivalent because we knew not to trust white people to implement this because it was goo to be a cluster.

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Parenting plays a part but it’s just one part. Trying to pinpoint one reasons is just fingerpointing and scapegoating. How many “bad” BPS parents do you personally know or even on a cursory level. BPS mismanagement is a huge factor and a populous that doesn’t have kids and mayors that have kids outside of BPS or never used BPS is another one.

I've read about plenty of bad BPS parents in the news. People in Boston get arrested on a daily basis. Do you think none of them have kids at BPS?

No one is saying all BPS parents are bad, I'm sure there are plenty of good ones as well. But parents have to get their kids interested in learning and teach them to behave or everyone suffers. Many bad habits are picked up at home and many are learned from kids at school.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by msRB311

I've read about plenty of bad BPS parents in the news. .

Have you really? Share.

[Space_League]

I would take this as typical BPS parents, based on real examples:

Mom was 15 dad 16 when the first kid was born (first of four for the mom). Parents never married, never graduated high school themselves. Kids knew their dad but see him like a goofy older brother and not a role model. Mom cares osensibly about her kids but has a lot on her plate to begin with and still busy 'living her life' well into her childrens' teen age years. Eventually moves to deep south small town with the youngest kid to get a fresh start, but the older ones already have lives going on in Boston and don't want to move down there, find it boring. Kids are mostly raised by grandparents (immigrants/homeowners) who also house some aunts in the house and sometimes their dad. Are these really bad parents? They aren't criminals, aren't abusive and they did provide what they could or had for their kids. They just seem like mediocre parents to me but ones who don't provide any structure and discipline

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Space_League

I would take this as typical BPS parents, based on real examples:

Mom was 15 dad 16 when the first kid was born (first of four for the mom). Parents never married, never graduated high school themselves. Kids knew their dad but see him like a goofy older brother and not a role model. Mom cares osensibly about her kids but has a lot on her plate to begin with and still busy 'living her life' well into her childrens' teen age years. Eventually moves to deep south small town with the youngest kid to get a fresh start, but the older ones already have lives going on in Boston and don't want to move down there, find it boring. Kids are mostly raised by grandparents (immigrants/homeowners) who also house some aunts in the house and sometimes their dad. Are these really bad parents? They aren't criminals, aren't abusive and they did provide what they could or had for their kids. They just seem like mediocre parents to me but ones who don't provide any structure and discipline

Yeah pretty realistic example, I think. The best way of putting it...is to say that while it's not on me to judge, statistically the odds of those kids not dragging their classroom down is not too high, and neither are the odds of them growing to be fully functional adults themselves.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by Space_League

I would take this as typical BPS parents, based on real examples:

Mom was 15 dad 16 when the first kid was born (first of four for the mom). Parents never married, never graduated high school themselves. Kids knew their dad but see him like a goofy older brother and not a role model. Mom cares osensibly about her kids but has a lot on her plate to begin with and still busy 'living her life' well into her childrens' teen age years. Eventually moves to deep south small town with the youngest kid to get a fresh start, but the older ones already have lives going on in Boston and don't want to move down there, find it boring. Kids are mostly raised by grandparents (immigrants/homeowners) who also house some aunts in the house and sometimes their dad. Are these really bad parents? They aren't criminals, aren't abusive and they did provide what they could or had for their kids. They just seem like mediocre parents to me but ones who don't provide any structure and discipline

A solid no to the bolded the rest is pretty accurate. Nobody is having kdis that young with any frequency anymore. Teenage pregnancy in Boston went the way of the DoDo quite some time ago. Black women average less than 2 kids per lifetime. Most black kids have graduated from BPS for a while now.

Your first three points are wayyyyy outdated. Far from "typical" in 2022. More like 1992. Bump the age up to 20 and cut the kids down to 2 or 3. They also probably graduated HS and took a few courses at RCC at some point.

Most people who leave Boston for the south are going to a major metro, not a small town. While I do know American Blacks with family in places like Biscoe or Kinston, NC they don't move there for obvious reasons.

The dad is known but usually seen as an a***hole or deadbeat and not a friend. Or hes not known at all, also common.

The rest is more or less true.

[Space_League]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

A solid no to the bolded the rest is pretty accurate. Nobody is having kdis that young with any frequency anymore. Teenage pregnancy in Boston went the way of the DoDo quite some time ago. Black women average less than 2 kids per lifetime. Most black kids have graduated from BPS for a while now.

Your first three points are wayyyyy outdated. Far from "typical" in 2022. More like 1992. Bump the age up to 20 and cut the kids down to 2 or 3. They also probably graduated HS and took a few courses at RCC at some point.

Most people who leave Boston for the south are going to a major metro, not a small town. While I do know American Blacks with family in places like Biscoe or Kinston, NC they don't move there for obvious reasons.

The dad is known but usually seen as an a***hole or deadbeat and not a friend. Or hes not known at all, also common.

The rest is more or less true.

Maybe my reference points are outdated now, since thats based on the upbringings from people my own age, not the current student body. People who would have been going through bps 15-20 years ago and born in the early 90s. i was actually born in 92 so I guess that checks out

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by Space_League

Maybe my reference points are outdated now, since thats based on the upbringings from people my own age, not the current student body. People who would have been going through bps 15-20 years ago and born in the early 90s. i was actually born in 92 so I guess that checks out

Yea I knew more people born to teenage mothers (more so 18/19) but now it seems very very rare. I haven't seen a teen with a baby in Boston in ages. It doesn't amount to much difference seeing as the bar for entry into a decent life is much higher now than what it was..Theyre just as disadvantaged all things considered. I remember when they called English High "Pregnant High" and Madison Park had a daycare in it and they're star basketball team players had kids. This was like 2006/2007.

[WestieWhitie]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Have you really? Share.

Homie, what are the chances each one of the late teens/early 20s thugs we hear about on a daily basis hasn't knocked up a dozen of clueless high school teenagers? BPS parents aren't the problem, it's the "parents" that also happen to be students at BPS that are the problem!

[Space_League]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Yea I knew more people born to teenage mothers (more so 18/19) but now it seems very very rare. I haven't seen a teen with a baby in Boston in ages. It doesn't amount to much difference seeing as the bar for entry into a decent life is much higher now than what it was..Theyre just as disadvantaged all things considered. I remember when they called English High "Pregnant High" and Madison Park had a daycare in it and they're star basketball team players had kids. This was like 2006/2007.

A few people my age were having kids in hs. Three or four in my friend group were parents at 16 and 17. Not super common but it wasn't unheard of either. Not an inner city school either. It's weird now thinking their kids are already going into high school feel like we were all just there ourselves