Carl's Jr wants to move its Headquarters (Los Angeles, Bell: appliances, cheap house)

[TVC15]

Originally Posted by yeahthatguy

There is nothing to be achieved here TVC15. I have spoken enough on the tax issue here. It is a standalone topic. There is no need and never was a need to bring another state into the fold yet lots of CA cheer leaders felt a need to do so in order to detract from CA's problems. California has tax/spending problems all on its own. Businesses will do what they have to do in this tough economic period. We have shed light on the woes of business owners due to taxes. We have shed light on the insane public worker compensation. We have shed light on the luxurious handouts. We have shed light on the illegal immigration problem. We have shed light on the horrid state of K-12 education due to immigration. We have shed light on the corruption. If there is a vote on tax extensions, I have done my part on this board, other online-boards, w/ co-workers, and in local community discussions to get people to see the light.

That's the only actionable item up on the board. There are personal action items that I will take up based on observations . I have done my research. I have consulted w/ business people. I have consulted w/ lawyers. I have consulted with friends. It is a decision based on facts/hard data and it will not be changed. As wont the minds of business people who have done theirs.

California's issues will remain nonetheless and it will have to tackle them if it hopes for long term economic stability. Illinois choose to jam taxes through the roof. Business owners have relocated their families to lower cost of living states and are trying to relocate their businesses .. Many others are in the beginning process of courting other states for a possible movement... Hiking taxes here when taxes are already high isn't the answer. This started out about Carl's Jr. and got personal. There is no need. This started out about CA and its fiscal issues and somehow there was a need to take a crap on other states ... For what? California's issues still remain regardless. While I am here, I will fight to change them ... I will not, however, continue to waste time on idiots. So, I am done on this thread.

Businesses leave and people say to hell w/ them.. More will come.
And taxes increase..... More businesses leave.. and people say.. More will come.... and taxes increase... Illegal Immigrants jam up in here as well as a wealth of jobless leechers....
California Debt - Unemployment payouts push California deeper into debt - Los Angeles Times
California unemployment insurance program broke and facing expensive default, auditor says | Money & Company | Los Angeles Times
And taxes increase... Someone says this is a fiscal issue... The pom poms come out ... If you don't like CA leave... and more leave... Handouts increase .. subsidization increases which only serves to jack up the floor of afford-ability and thus cost of living goes up.. Someone says, hey, my tax dollars are being confiscated and used to inflate my cost of living.. Someone says, it's demand stupid .... If you don't like it.. Can't afford it .. GTFO ... and more people leave... and more subsidy babies come in... This goes on and on... and the pom pom wavers cheer louder and louder. Until someone points out .. the game is over .. your team lost 2-3 years ago... And that is how it will go.

Californian's have an opportunity to put down the pom-pom's .. embrace this state's reality .. embrace their future ... If they don't... I guess they can keep wishing on a star that the talent will keep loving lower standards of living for 10-12 hour days of hard work .. but its likely that people w/ intelligence will grow tired of this. If they don't, they deserve every penny of their income to be confiscated to enrich the lives of others.

There will be some who decide this is outrageous. There will be others who will embrace it. Different strokes for different folks. Life goes on and if someone is happy.. if a state decides to be happy w/ such a situation.. let em be.. I'll just not be a part of the party.

So, I agree to disagree and am leaving it at that.

Yes you are correct it is a pointless conversation especially when you have a person who rants and cannot substantiate their "facts"...truly pointless indeed!
We need more people who think like you...at least you can back up your points with factual data instead of just ranting and trying to convince people that you know what you are talking about!
It is interesting that Californians choose to turn their heads at the issues as if they will just go away and higer taxes will fix it.

I am with you on doing my best to make a change for California! If this trend continues and the voters don't wake up I am gone as well.

[Oerdin]

Originally Posted by TVC15

Texas does not suck and who on earth is whining about everyone else? The jokes are just that jokes! Actually I think San Diego sucks. I am thankful that I did not take that lowly paying job 2 yeas ago. The reason I did not was that San Diego appeared to be a dump to me. Once you got over the awe of it then you begin to see the dump that it really is. I am thankful that I took the opportunity in Northern California with a 21K higher offer!

LOL! Someone got his feelings hurt.

Me thinks he duth protest too much. Just accept that Texas is the butt crack of America and let go of your anger.

[Oerdin]

Originally Posted by Reason42

...as to the topic... I know, how silly of me... But should we not discuss ways in which to make companies/corporations want to come/stay in California?

...Obviously, if they have been leaving, the weather has not been enough.

Taxes between California and Texas are within 2 percentage base points of each other so the Taxes issue is pretty much a red herring. Low wage work does leave due to the higher than the Federal minimum wage but the huge reason for loss of jobs has nothing to do with other states.

We've had around a half dozen of these threads over the last year or so and several people have posted links to several different studies. The hard reality is just about every state is losing tons of low pay and middle paying jobs due to outsourcing to China (and other foreign locations but mostly China) while the movement of jobs between the states is very small. The people who claim more then a tiny percentage of the jobs lost in the Us is due to jobs moving to other states are either ignorant or out of touch with reality. The jobs are leaving for China by the millions per year while the jobs moving between the various states (and the movement is not one way but all ways between the states) is a tiny fraction of that net number.

In short, not even America's higher productivity rate can compensate for the fact that the average Chinese factory worker (in things like the garment business) is between $0.60-$0.80 per hour (no benefits offered), an electronics assembly worker might make around $1-$1.20 per hour, and a skilled autoworker might make around $4-$5 per hour (if he has a skilled trade). Against that we will never successfully compete long term especially since the Chinese manipulate their currency to effectively lower the price of Chinese exports and since the Chinese government is highly protectionist. That's what happened to the jobs my friend and Texas will also continue to be a net job loser to China no matter how low they make their taxes.

[TVC15]

Originally Posted by Oerdin

LOL! Someone got his feelings hurt.

Me thinks he duth protest too much. Just accept that Texas is the butt crack of America and let go of your anger.

I'm not a he dear

No anger about you what you think about Texas...

I understand that Californians tend to go into idiot mode with the mere mention of the word Texas.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by TVC15

I'm not a he dear

No anger about you what you think about Texas...

I understand that Californians tend to go into idiot mode with the mere mention of the word Texas.

So riddle me this. Why did you leave Texas since you were born and raised there and claim to love it?

[user_id]

Originally Posted by TVC15

You are absolutely full of ****! You really need to educate yourself before making absurd statements about Texas not having enough top Universities to educate it's own residents...total BS! You have the reading comprehension problem as well as the inability to comprehend your own ignorance.

You've done little other than try to insult me. To say it once again, Texas only has 3 tier 1 universities and one of them is small. California on the other hand has 15 tier 1 universities. Even after you adjust for population California has far more tier 1 universities than Texas. You see similar results if you compare NY, MA, etc to Texas.

But I'm sure you will continue to be defensive instead of looking at the issue objectively.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Reason42

...as to the topic... I know, how silly of me... But should we not discuss ways in which to make companies/corporations want to come/stay in California?
.

We are, the universities in California are play a huge role in making businesses want to come and stay in California. That was my point initial point, taxes do not play a major role in business decisions. But that should be obvious to anybody that doesn't have their head in the sand, the states with the highest GDP (raw or per-capita) are the states with the highest taxes.

Furthermore the whole premise that businesses prefer low taxes in the first place is fundamentally flawed. Businesses can benefit greatly from a high level of government services and hence high taxes. Education plays a key role here, having low cost local colleges provides excellent value to businesses that require skilled employees. But things like public transit infrastructure, etc are also important as well.

The businesses that don't rely on these things will likely move to low cost areas, but these tend to be businesses that have large uneducated workforces.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by yeahthatguy

Californian's have an opportunity to put down the pom-pom's .. embrace this state's reality .. embrace their future ... If they don't... I guess they can keep wishing on a star that the talent will keep loving lower standards of living for 10-12 hour days of hard work .. but its likely that people w/ intelligence will grow tired of this. If they don't, they deserve every penny of their income to be confiscated to enrich the lives of others.

Like I said, partisan hack. You believe that because most Californians don't embrace your conservative wet dream that Californians are cheerleaders, etc. There are problems in California, the vast majority of Californians acknowledge those problems, but most Californians do not think the solution is "reduce spending, cut taxes".

California's biggest problem isn't too much spending, its too little. California has neglected its infrastructure, there are two reasons for that. On one hand certain interest groups (public unions) have tried to suck every dollar they can out of the state and secondly the state just isn't collecting enough taxes to make the sorts of investments that are required to make California successful in the future.

[TimC2462]

All this back and forth bantering about California vs. Texas is like being a kid watching his divorced parents arguing. lol

[user_id]

The discussion and making comparison between the two states is apt, because they are based on different models. Texas is based on the low-service, low-tax model, the model that is being advocated on the national scale, and California is based on a high-service/social model. Conservatives want to turn California into Texas, so its again apt to look the effects of Texas policy on Texas to see if that is the sort of thing Californians would be happy with.