Majority of CA Voters support Jerry Brown's budget plan; 63% support tax increase (Montclair: unemployment rate, buy)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Hwy phantom

Where does this assurance come from, you think you can dictate for yourself where every penny of your tax dollars are directed and you can monitor exactly how it's spent?

Hence my apprehension.

I quite frankly dont trust our elected officials to do what they say theyre going to do when it comes to spending money.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Hwy phantom

What the !#*@ are you talking about! I'm suppose to give more so that cops and firefighters can retire at 100+K at 52 years old. I'm suppose to give more so prison guards can cash out 200+k in unused comp time! I'm suppose to give more so millions of illegals immigrants can use are services! I'm suppose to give more really? I tell you what, I'm pretty sure there is a line on the 1040 form that allows you to contribute some extra tax money. Why don't you go ahead and give more, eh?

You are so lost it's sad. No where did montclair claim anything you magically heard. "Cheritable" was meant in regard to the mentality that ANYONE who may be unlucky enough to have fallen down on their luck (which has happened a lot in this current economy), is regarded as a burden. Someone who needs to be gotten rid of so to speak. At no point was giving yours or anyone else's money to illegals mentioned at all. In fact, 18monclair and myself have often been more "conservative" with illegal immigration. If you're going to disagree, at least make sure you are reading the thread

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

You are so lost it's sad. No where did montclair claim anything you magically heard. "Cheritable" was meant in regard to the mentality that ANYONE who may be unlucky enough to have fallen down on their luck (which has happened a lot in this current economy), is regarded as a burden. Someone who needs to be gotten rid of so to speak. At no point was giving yours or anyone else's money to illegals mentioned at all. In fact, 18monclair and myself have often been more "conservative" with illegal immigration. If you're going to disagree, at least make sure you are reading the thread

Gentoo ≠ conservative

[.highnlite]

Oh and lastly 4. on you list is an absolute joke. Do you know what % of illegals work in the fields? It's less than 5%, so the other 95% are working elsewhere. But hey don't let the facts and logic get in your way.

It is utterly irrelevant what percent of illegals work in the fields, what is relevant is that 80% of the fruits, produce and wine you consume is brought to you by illegals. It is also relevant that those of you who complain about the illegals, are only complaining (whining) none of you have a reality based solution.

I am not sure why you are concerned about my "facts and logic" when your post was fantasy.

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by sav858

Public Employees today are indeed getting better benefits and pay than they were in the past. Before the generous benefits made up for the lower pay but now they have the same or higher pay with the same generous benefits. They are viewed differently and rightfully so, their unions have become to big, powerful, and greedy and when you look at the statistics it becomes very clear why there is such a backlash.


Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com

"Federal workers have been awarded bigger average pay and benefit increases than private employees for nine years in a row. The compensation gap between federal and private workers has doubled in the past decade."

Wisconsin one of 41 states where public workers earn more - USATODAY.com

"The analysis of government data found that public employees' compensation has grown faster than the earnings of private workers since 2000. Primary cause: the rising value of benefits"

"In contrast, California's public employees enjoyed soaring compensation throughout that state's decade-long budget crisis."

"•California. Public employee compensation rose 28% above the inflation rate from 2000 to 2009 to an average of $71,385 in 2009."

Are State and Local Government Employees Paid Too Much? - Graphic - NYTimes.com

The first story you list, from USA Today, actually goes back to one of my main points about evaluating government salaries. If you look at federal pay and total compensation for a long period of time, the pay increases have actually been less than those in the private sector. Looking at brief periods can distort data, and not accounting for job mix further creates mistakes in analysis.

I'm familiar with the federal pay increases all the way back to the Nixon era, and the pay raises have generally been quite small, even skipped increases a few years when inflation was fairly significant. An objective analysis shows that the pay increases has lagged private industry during this period.

At year-end 2009, the overall price level as measured by the CPI was 477% higher than it was in 1969. As of January 2010, Social Security benefits have risen by 626% since
1969, and federal civil service retirement benefits have risen by 496%. Average wages among all workers in the economy have risen by 632% since 1969. Salaries for civilian federal employees have increased by 428% since 1969, and the salaries of Members of Congress have increased by
309%.

This report is updated annually.

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/94-971_20100120.pdf

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Exactly, despite having very low taxes they still think theyre overtaxed.

This is not a Texas only phenomenon but seems to be a noticeable change in the morality of this whole country-we are less charitable, we are less willing to help others and more likely to villify those who for whatever reason cannot provide for themselves. That's my personal feeling based on the change in rhetoric I've seen over the years.

I'm not sure this is a morality issue per se. I think that the bigger issue is not how much tax is collected as much as what it is spent on. Most of us appreciate and recognize that we don't get to direct our taxes to our favorite programs (whatever they are). It is difficult to tolerate politicians abusing their positions of power by taking our money and spending it badly.

I favor in a general sense avoiding concentrations of money and power. Spend tax money locally, allocated by local officials, if possible. These officials live around their constituents, have less room to hide, and less money to spend.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

I'm not sure this is a morality issue per se. I think that the bigger issue is not how much tax is collected as much as what it is spent on. Most of us appreciate and recognize that we don't get to direct our taxes to our favorite programs (whatever they are). It is difficult to tolerate politicians abusing their positions of power by taking our money and spending it badly.

I favor in a general sense avoiding concentrations of money and power. Spend tax money locally, allocated by local officials, if possible. These officials live around their constituents, have less room to hide, and less money to spend.

I think your right. The real concern is how the money is spent.

[.highnlite]

The military trains fireman and police in months and those men and woman can outperform civilian public workers any day.

Now that is funny. Any long haired bearded Forest Service Hotshot crew will work a military crew into the ground. I have seen that more than once. The military guys simply do not have the physical fitness to cut line at a hotshot level.

[Oerdin]

These polls are nice but 1/3rd plus of the population doesn't bother to vote so really all that matters are the opinions of citizens who actually show up to vote.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Now that is funny. Any long haired bearded Forest Service Hotshot crew will work a military crew into the ground. I have seen that more than once. The military guys simply do not have the physical fitness to cut line at a hotshot level.

Yeah ... I believe you
99% of what you say here is total BS -- that's your MO