Majority of CA Voters support Jerry Brown's budget plan; 63% support tax increase (San Jose: condo, public schools)

[ZhugeLiang]

A vote on this would be fine, but then again, our elected representatives are already doing their jobs by opposing these extensions coming to a vote in the first place.

[ZhugeLiang]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

it is utterly irrelevant what percent of illegals work in the fields, what is relevant is that 80% of the fruits, produce and wine you consume is brought to you by illegals. It is also relevant that those of you who complain about the illegals, are only complaining (whining) none of you have a reality based solution.

I am not sure why you are concerned about my "facts and logic" when your post was fantasy.

lmao

[Oerdin]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

At year-end 2009, the overall price level as measured by the CPI was 477% higher than it was in 1969. As of January 2010, Social Security benefits have risen by 626% since
1969, and federal civil service retirement benefits have risen by 496%. Average wages among all workers in the economy have risen by 632% since 1969. Salaries for civilian federal employees have increased by 428% since 1969, and the salaries of Members of Congress have increased by
309%.

This report is updated annually.

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/94-971_20100120.pdf

BTW the CPI figure, like the official unemployment figure, is completely rigged and should be taken with a whole handful of salt (not just a grain). The whole original point of the CPI was to compare how the prices of the exact same goods changed over time. The problem is Reagan didn't like how that made him look bad so he instituted the idea of "substitution" to the CPI because it effectively lowered the CPI figure. Substitution means that if ground beef is too expensive then consumers might buy pork instead and while that is true it's completely retarded to factor that into the official CPI number. The reason is simple, the CPI is supposed to track the changes in price for the EXACT same basket of goods year after year, decade after decade, but if you are constantly changing what you're measuring (beef prices went up so stop including them and start measuring something else) then you simply cannot accurately track price changes over time.

Politicians also love to lie about the unemployment rate or other official statistics with the most famous examples being how they deliberately stopped counting large numbers of unemployed people because that lowers the official unemployment rate and makes politicians look better or how GWB tried to reclassify fast food jobs as "manufacturing" because the press was grilling him over the low of manufacturing jobs. Yes, he really did try to do that. The problem is these sorts of political games end up making the official numbers completely fictitious and of questionable accuracy or usefulness. That said, we can bet our bottom dollar that all of the changes the politicians have made are designed to deliberately under count things like inflation or unemployment so the official CPI number, as inaccurate as it is, is useful for determining the absolute minimum level of inflation or unemployment even though the real numbers are actually much higher.

Oh, and I completely agree with you on your main point. The folks who claim public sector wages have gone up faster then private sector wages (or even exceeded the inflation rate) are at best completely ignorant of the facts or at worst deliberate liars. My guess, having known lots of conservatives, is that they're just ignorant and too lazy to look up the numbers for themselves so they mindless repeat which ever lies are spoon fed to them by partisan media. Those people aren't terribly knowledgeable or bright as a group.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang

A vote on this would be fine, but then again, our elected representatives are already doing their jobs by opposing these extensions coming to a vote in the first place.

I don't think it should go to public vote. The waters in California are tainted and our voting record proves that. The local and national media promotes the liberal agenda and this is where many people get their voting information. The California public union members (teachers, fireman, police, guards, etc) promote the liberal agenda and they have a dog in the race. This is one of the big problems in California; the people are feed liberal propaganda so they vote as they are told. Many welfare recipients and the unemployed see the state government as their meal ticket (as was planned) so they will vote for whatever the government tells them. As we saw with Prop 8, even if the bill is voted on and it goes against the wishes of the liberal base, the liberal forces will take it to court and get liberal judges to flip it the liberal way.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Oerdin

BTW the CPI figure, like the official unemployment figure, is completely rigged and should be taken with a whole handful of salt (not just a grain). The whole original point of the CPI was to compare how the prices of the exact same goods changed over time. The problem is Reagan didn't like how that made him look bad so he instituted the idea of "substitution" to the CPI because it effectively lowered the CPI figure. Substitution means that if ground beef is too expensive then consumers might buy pork instead and while that is true it's completely retarded to factor that into the official CPI number. The reason is simple, the CPI is supposed to track the changes in price for the EXACT same basket of goods year after year, decade after decade, but if you are constantly changing what you're measuring (beef prices went up so stop including them and start measuring something else) then you simply cannot accurately track price changes over time.

Politicians also love to lie about the unemployment rate or other official statistics with the most famous examples being how they deliberately stopped counting large numbers of unemployed people because that lowers the official unemployment rate and makes politicians look better or how GWB tried to reclassify fast food jobs as "manufacturing" because the press was grilling him over the low of manufacturing jobs. Yes, he really did try to do that. The problem is these sorts of political games end up making the official numbers completely fictitious and of questionable accuracy or usefulness. That said, we can bet our bottom dollar that all of the changes the politicians have made are designed to deliberately under count things like inflation or unemployment so the official CPI number, as inaccurate as it is, is useful for determining the absolute minimum level of inflation or unemployment even though the real numbers are actually much higher.

Oh, and I completely agree with you on your main point. The folks who claim public sector wages have gone up faster then private sector wages (or even exceeded the inflation rate) are at best completely ignorant of the facts or at worst deliberate liars. My guess, having known lots of conservatives, is that they're just ignorant and too lazy to look up the numbers for themselves so they mindless repeat which ever lies are spoon fed to them by partisan media. Those people aren't terribly knowledgeable or bright as a group.

Can't rep you now but this is a great post

[Hwy phantom]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

It is utterly irrelevant what percent of illegals work in the fields, what is relevant is that 80% of the fruits, produce and wine you consume is brought to you by illegals. It is also relevant that those of you who complain about the illegals, are only complaining (whining) none of you have a reality based solution.

I am not sure why you are concerned about my "facts and logic" when your post was fantasy.

A reality based solution? How about enforcing existing immigration laws? How requiring employers to use E-Verify, how about reinstating prop 187 that was passed by the voters in 1994, how about increased border enforcement, how about a more secure Identification, I can go on and on. The fact of the matter is anytime people purpose we do these things, nuts like yourself start screaming nonsense that a head of lettuce will cost $20. As if we start deporting people suddenly there will be nobody left to work in the fields.

[Hwy phantom]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

It is utterly irrelevant what percent of illegals work in the fields, what is relevant is that 80% of the fruits, produce and wine you consume is brought to you by illegals. It is also relevant that those of you who complain about the illegals, are only complaining (whining) none of you have a reality based solution.

I am not sure why you are concerned about my "facts and logic" when your post was fantasy.

If we deported most illegals we would still have workers for the fields considering that many are here on work visa's anyways.

H2A Agricultural Guest Worker Program

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Employment Law Guide - Temporary Agricultural Workers (H-2A Visas) (http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/taw.htm - broken link)

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Hwy phantom

A reality based solution? How about enforcing existing immigration laws? How requiring employers to use E-Verify, how about reinstating prop 187 that was passed by the voters in 1994, how about increased border enforcement, how about a more secure Identification, I can go on and on. The fact of the matter is anytime people purpose we do these things, nuts like yourself start screaming nonsense that a head of lettuce will cost $20. As if we start deporting people suddenly there will be nobody left to work in the fields.

I wonder who did all those jobs before the invasion that started about 30 years ago?

If we had a secure border it would be a one time expense vs the thrashing our social services are taking.

[Oerdin]

Originally Posted by Don9

I don't think it should go to public vote. The waters in California are tainted and our voting record proves that. The local and national media promotes the liberal agenda and this is where many people get their voting information. The California public union members (teachers, fireman, police, guards, etc) promote the liberal agenda and they have a dog in the race. This is one of the big problems in California; the people are feed liberal propaganda so they vote as they are told. Many welfare recipients and the unemployed see the state government as their meal ticket (as was planned) so they will vote for whatever the government tells them. As we saw with Prop 8, even if the bill is voted on and it goes against the wishes of the liberal base, the liberal forces will take it to court and get liberal judges to flip it the liberal way.

Yeah, screw that democracy stuff if the outcome isn't what you personally like or if the outcome is what you like (but violates the constitution) then just ignore the constitution!

Do you ever stop to read the nonsense you post? Prop 8 violated both the state constitution and the Federal constitution so it was obviously illegal (darn that equal protection clause) while your strawman argument about the supposed "liberal media" and the motivations of anyone who's political views differ from yours is just that, a strawman argument. If you base your world view on such sad nonsense then it's no wonder you're posting nonsensical things here on the forums.

[RCCCB]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Well not an increase, but a tax extension.

Actually 90% support budget cuts, especially to government pensions.

The rest of this stuff is pretty much a fabrication.

Go ask people on the streets if they want a tax increase and see what the answer is?