Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Interesting, the level of emotion this thread topic has reached at times. A number of posters responded with stereotyping welfare recipients in various categories -- and proposed solutions based on correcting the perceived ethical failures of the stereotypes -- rather than on creating opportunities for them. The reasoning was that ethical failure is a "choice" that welfare people specifically prefer. And, of course, creating opportunities would cost "productive" society precious pennies out of pockets that could otherwise buy more apps for their smart phones, or such.
When several posters wrote that education and self-motivation would solve the problems of welfare, I presented a couple of response thesis that were met with ridicule.
• I pointed out several fallacies of the stereotyping -- using stats, studies, and reports that debunked common misconceptions about welfare
• I pointed out that regardless of education and motivation, there simply aren't enough jobs.
• I also pointed out that education -- and theoretically resulting higher earnings -- do not guarantee good citizenship nor productive social endeavor.
Blasphemy! Apparently.
Now, reading a couple tirades from certain conservative posters who present themselves as having risen out of poverty to gain high levels of education -- including science and engineering in advanced degrees -- and who boast of six-figure incomes -- it would seem they have intensely supported my thesis on education and earnings not guaranteeing quality outcomes.
For all their education and money, a couple of these now highly educated, relatively wealthy folks:
• can't read with comprehension,
• can't process information logically,
• can't control their emotions,
• and can't communicate their ideas with clarity.
Meanwhile the majority of welfare homes today include working adults who simply can't compete in this job market to rise above living at below poverty level incomes. While some of these people may well be unwilling to work, none are allowed the luxury of living off the "dole" for more than 60 months -- now being down-limited to 24 months-- except for the children who can't work. And the welfare support provided is not enough to live on in any case -- thus bringing into serious question how any of these folks actually "choose" to live this way because they prefer to.
Lots of people, even highly educated ones, get stuck at times in their lives. Get off their backs with the attitudes, folks. You're not any better -- but for good fortune. As for the very small minority who wallow in the life you despise -- that is their sentence. Better to pay them a little welfare than to pay more for their incarceration if they are forced to turn to crime to eat. There have always been a minority who can't rise to society's standards. Carry the few -- or kill them off?
And, meanwhile, the overall welfare support rate has plummeted over 50% steadily since 1994.
Now, reading a couple tirades from certain conservative posters who present themselves as having risen out of poverty to gain high levels of education -- including science and engineering in advanced degrees -- and who boast of six-figure incomes -- it would seem they have intensely supported my thesis on education and earnings not guaranteeing quality outcomes.
For all their education and money, a couple of these now highly educated, relatively wealthy folks:
• can't read with comprehension,
• can't process information logically,
• can't control their emotions,
• and can't communicate their ideas with clarity.
Would those "advanced degree's" come from?
1) "one of the top Universities in America"
2) "one of "public ivy" schools"
And, meanwhile, the overall welfare support rate has plummeted over 50% steadily since 1994.
... Welfare support rate under : TANF.. Thanks for specifying that major detail...
The reason for the 'participation' rate in one major welfare program - TANF plummeting from 1994 is because
the employment rate was increasing from 1994 - 1996 :
and in 1996 there was major WELFARE REFORM in TANF
: Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.... Before they used to just give 'block grants' and cash out to people .. Some genius figured out this was reckless and now it is split across many programs...
What programs are those and what has been the trend across them over time? Increase absolute outlays for as long as you can go back (as you would expect) :
^ This is shadow unemployment benefits whereby after unemployment benefits expire people falsely file for 'disability' due to psychological reasons and the govt. looks the other way...
An education could do wonders... Lack of depth of understanding. Reflecting on statements I have made previously though, this is why the educated don't bother w/ others and why the nation is in steady decline. People try to point things out and such people carry on w/ shenanigans. Even though I have pointed out the clear reasons for your shallow observation and have provided data/charts that a 3 year old can read, I am sure you are going to have something smart to say afterwards... Don't, I don't care and I don't care for your silly comments about my education and personal life.
It's the main reason the educated on matters don't bother w/ such people ... They do at first until they learn their lesson. I've learned mine and I'm done.
I'm a pragmatic liberal. I'm in favor of coming up with realistic solutions that go towards the greater benefit of everyone. As opposed to the conservative mindset of taking all you can for yourself and screwing over everyone else.
A bit aggressive, don't you think? I mean, you're generalizing pretty much everything; not that I never have, but others have pointed it out to me, so I will to you.
You seem to make it out that all Conservatives hate the poor and are in fact lobbying for the rich. Well, in fact, the Democratic Party has more large donors than the Republican Party, which gets most of its money from small donations. What is actually going on is that financially successful (or endowed) Liberals feel guilty about having wealth. They must prove that they don't hate the poor by subjecting themselves (as well as those of us who just want to achieve a comfortable retirement) to confiscatory taxation. But Social Security will make up for it, eh?
Conservatives do not necessarily oppose change, they want accountable change at a slower pace. Read that to understand it, until you get it. No one's telling you what to put in your body or what religion to be. So don't complain about it. If you don't want to do something, or have actual values, go to some Euro country that better suits you. We have and have had our policies on this for a long time, the majority supports them and they WON'T change for you.
By the way, Conservatives as an entity did not oppose the AM. Read some history. It was the Loyalists, who simply wanted the security and rule of being a colony. Opposition to rights for women and minorities was most often perpetrated by sexists and racists, respectively, who happened to relate to Conservatives.
It's immature, really, to want universal healthcare when you fellows damn well know that it will cost too much all at once and that it will have to be paid for by the already-burdened middle class. And protecting the environment is everyone's job, and I don't see ALL liberals doing it, either.
I can no longer guarantee that either side is right. I can say Conservatives are closer to the right (that is to say, correct) side of the situation.
The Main Problem with Liberals: Liberals claim to be tolerant, but are lying to themselves and everyone else about it.
Gays must be embraced in the name of inclusiveness. Conservatives must be shunned.
9/11 “truthers” are welcomed or politely ignored. Obama “birthers” are anathema.
P**s on a picture of Jesus and you are an artist. P**s on a Koran and you are an Islamaphobe. Embrace Christianity and you are a dangerous proponent of theocracy.
If you are Black or Hispanic or a woman running for office, that alone is a sufficient qualification for election (see Obama, President). Unless you are a conservative, in which case you are never qualified; in fact, you are a traitor who must be stopped at all costs (see Palin, Sarah).
Free speech is essential. Unless you are a conservative addressing a crowd in Madison, Wisconsin, or any college campus.
And on, and on. It is not diversity they want, but a certain kind of uniformity of views that correspond with their own. If your views fit within that framework, you will be welcomed. But if not, you will be attacked in the most hostile and unpleasant ways.
That is in part because a large percentage of liberals do not want a debate on the merits. They are losing the debate on the merits. So they want to stop debate.
To do so, they try to delegitimize those who disagree with them:
If you are against affirmative action, you hate minorities and women. Let’s never discuss whether affirmative action is appropriate, necessary, successful, or harmful even to those who “benefit” from it.
If you are skeptical of global warming claims or the policies advanced to combat it, you hate the environment, or are in bed with big oil, or are “anti-science.” Let’s never discuss whether the models actually predict anything accurately.
If you are against uncontrolled spending, you want grandma to starve and disabled children to be abandoned in the street.
If you don’t want to shovel ever more money into public schools, you hate children. Let’s not consider why we have had continual massive increases in school funding without achieving better results.
If you don’t want above-market public employee pay and benefits, you want to destroy the middle class. Let’s not consider whether public employees deserve to be paid more and have better benefits and more job security than those who pay for them.
The problem for liberals is that they lose these debates when they have to argue the merits. So they attack, deride, shout down, and distract as much as possible.
That is, essentially, what the whole new civility nonsense was this Spring. Liberals are not in favor of civility in discourse. The most vile stuff comes from the left, not the right. Instead, they want to impede the ability of conservatives to present their arguments.
... Welfare support rate under : TANF.. Thanks for specifying that major detail...
The reason for the 'participation' rate in one major welfare program - TANF plummeting from 1994 is because
the employment rate was increasing from 1994 - 1996 :
What programs are those and what has been the trend across them over time? Increase absolute outlays for as long as you can go back (as you would expect) :
^ This is shadow unemployment benefits whereby after unemployment benefits expire people falsely file for 'disability' due to psychological reasons and the govt. looks the other way...
An education could do wonders... Lack of depth of understanding. Reflecting on statements I have made previously though, this is why the educated don't bother w/ others and why the nation is in steady decline. People try to point things out and such people carry on w/ shenanigans. Even though I have pointed out the clear reasons for your shallow observation and have provided data/charts that a 3 year old can read, I am sure you are going to have something smart to say afterwards... Don't, I don't care and I don't care for your silly comments about my education and personal life.
It's the main reason the educated on matters don't bother w/ such people ... They do at first until they learn their lesson. I've learned mine and I'm done.
It's the main reason the educated on matters don't bother w/ such people ... They do at first until they learn their lesson. I've learned mine and I'm done.
We don't bother, but that won't stop what your soon to be Gov. Scott will do with your tax dollars.
As good as it may sound, it will cost taxpayers the most. Man your going to love coming back to Florida
"Only 2 percent of welfare recipients failed drug tests, meaning the state must reimburse the cost of the $30 drug tests to the 96 percent of recipients who passed drug tests (two percent did not take the tests). After reimbursements, the state’s savings will be almost negligible, the Tampa Tribune reports:
Cost of the tests averages about $30. Assuming that 1,000 to 1,500 applicants take the test every month, the state will owe about $28,800-$43,200 monthly in reimbursements to those who test drug-free.
That compares with roughly $32,200-$48,200 the state may save on one month’s worth of rejected applicants.
Net savings to the state: $3,400 to $5,000 annually on one month’s worth of rejected applicants. Over 12 months, the money saved on all rejected applicants would add up to $40,800 to $60,000 for a program that state analysts have predicted will cost $178 million this fiscal year."
As good as it may sound, it will cost taxpayers the most. Man your going to love coming back to Florida
"Only 2 percent of welfare recipients failed drug tests, meaning the state must reimburse the cost of the $30 drug tests to the 96 percent of recipients who passed drug tests (two percent did not take the tests). After reimbursements, the state’s savings will be almost negligible, the Tampa Tribune reports:
Cost of the tests averages about $30. Assuming that 1,000 to 1,500 applicants take the test every month, the state will owe about $28,800-$43,200 monthly in reimbursements to those who test drug-free.
That compares with roughly $32,200-$48,200 the state may save on one month’s worth of rejected applicants.
Net savings to the state: $3,400 to $5,000 annually on one month’s worth of rejected applicants. Over 12 months, the money saved on all rejected applicants would add up to $40,800 to $60,000 for a program that state analysts have predicted will cost $178 million this fiscal year."
Most govt.'s are run by idiots.. Because the majority who elect them are. Florida is no exception. Democracy is as good as the people in it .. The big thing that I care about is how much those idiots want me to pay for their foolery. In FL, I wont pay much so I frankly don't care. Here, I pay a great deal and would pay even more now that I want to buy a house. So yeah, I am going to love being back in FL. At least they don't assess an insane amounts of taxes on people just for making money.
So, explain to me what tax dollars you're referring to? Further, this is an increase in administrative costs and is sensible. As a tax payer, I wouldn't mind paying more as I am assured bum arse drug addicts aren't abusing the system.. Ask a typical bank how much it costs to have a 'fraud' department... It cost money
Idiots will be idiots.. My problem is when I am tax'd to sh*t for it. Here's a full list (enjoy getting acquainted with them during your move) :
CALIFORNIA
Sales Taxes
State Sales Tax: California’s minimum combined state, county and local sales and use tax rate dropped to 7.25 percent (6.24 state-only portion and 1 percent collected by localities) on July 1, 2011. Rates will be higher in cities and counties with special taxing districts. Publication 71 lists combined sales tax rates for California cities and counties. (Food and prescription drugs are exempt.) Gasoline Tax: * 48.6 cents/gallon
Diesel Fuel Tax: * 51.5 cents/gallon
Cigarette Tax: 87 cents/pack of 20
Personal Income Taxes
Tax Rate Range: Low – 1.0%; High - 9.3%. For 2010 the state has enacted a 0.25 percentage point increase in each of the state’s income tax brackets. A tax credit for dependents was reduced from $309 to $98.
Income Brackets: ** Lowest – $7,316; Highest – $48,029
Number of Brackets: 6
Personal Exemptions: Single – $102; Married – $204
Tax Credits: Single - $99; Married – $198; Dependents – $309; 65 years of age or older – $99
Standard Deduction: Single – $3,769; Married filing jointly – $7,538
Medical/Dental Deduction: Same as Federal taxes
Federal Income Tax Deduction: None
Retirement Income Taxes: Social Security and Railroad Retirement benefits are exempt. There is a 2.5% tax on early distributions and qualified pensions. All private, local, state and federal pensions are fully taxed.
Retired Military Pay: Follows federal tax rules.
Military Disability Retired Pay: Retirees who entered the military before Sept. 24, 1975, and members receiving disability retirements based on combat injuries or who could receive disability payments from the VA are covered by laws giving disability broad exemption from federal income tax. Most military retired pay based on service-related disabilities also is free from federal income tax, but there is no guarantee of total protection.
VA Disability Dependency and Indemnity Compensation: VA benefits are not taxable because they generally are for disabilities and are not subject to federal or state taxes.
Military SBP/SSBP/RCSBP/RSFPP: Generally subject to state taxes for those states with income tax. Check with state department of revenue office.
Property Taxes
Property is assessed at 100% of full cash value. The maximum amount of tax on real estate is limited to 1% of the full cash value. Under the homestead program, the first $7,000 of the full value of a homeowner’s dwelling is exempt.
FLORIDA
Sales Taxes State Sales Tax: 6% (food, prescription and non-prescription drugs exempt). Localities add another 1.5% or so on Gasoline Tax: 16.6 cents/gallon
Diesel Fuel Tax: * 30.5 cents/gallon
(Local taxes for gasoline vary from 5.5 cents to 17 cents, plus there is a 2.07% gasoline pollution tax.)
Cigarette Tax: 33.9 cents/pack of 20
Personal Income Taxes No state income tax Retirement Income: Not taxed.
Property Taxes
All property is taxable at 100% of its just valuation. Every person who owns and resides on real property in Florida on January 1 and makes the property their permanent residence is eligible to receive a homestead exemption up to $50,000. The first $25,000 applies to all property taxes, including school district taxes. The additional exemption up to $25,000, applies to the assessed value between $50,000 and $75,000 and only to nonschool taxes. If one spouse holds the title, the other spouse may file for the exemption with the consent of the titleholder.
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 06-19-2012 at 02:35 PM..
... oh, it's like TVC's "I'm done" and then return after return ...
As for the rest of the rant ... yeah, maybe later I'll get back to those snappy answers you predicted ... they're pretty obvious ... I probably will ...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
... oh, it's like TVC's "I'm done" and then return after return ...
