Californians are fleeing the state in droves.....273,833 people lost since 2010 (San Francisco: middle-class, bankruptcy)

[MountainGuy74]

I don't understand something. How are illegal immigrants not paying taxes? If they are working someplace and getting a paycheck then how are taxes not being taken out of their check?

[arleigh]

A lot of illegals know how to cheat the system, and do things like share SSN, and some employers even issue extra employee numbers, to fool the corporate and things like that .
My brother has a business that services other business around southern cal, and he sees them leaving all the time .
Fortunately he is about to retire so it won't effect him much .
I worked for a billion dollar corporation that has been slowly laying people off ,and already has branch manufacturing around the world .
Out of thousands that were in the plant I had worked ,now there is only a a few hundred , if that.
California drives out business.
And with out an income ,you have to find work ,and it ain't here.
I'm retired .
Liberals have driven California into the ground, and it won't stop till it goes back to Mexico.
I was born here .I have watched it sense 1950. south of LA , San Bernadino, northern cal, and just above san Diego.
I have toyed with leaving my self ,but it's where most of my family are .
If they begin to leave then so will I.

[18Montclair]

I think its good that these people are leaving, and please dont come back. Our state economy has grown by a trillion dollars since thet started leaving. Silicon Valley basically took over the world economy since they started leaving. LAs crime rate has fallen to below average since they started leaving. Democrats now have a supermajority in the state legislature because these wet blanket complainers left. The state's best days are yet to come and we dont need them here holding us back. There is no better place in the world than California-if they cant see that then they dont deserve to be here.

[Gentoo]

The illegal crutch many of you have so faithfully relied on is no longer valid. Over the past few years, immigration from/through Mexico has been at zero and may have even reversed. Then of course there's this little problem of a budget surplus which many of you seemed to be dismissive of.

When your hatred for a place is so bad that it clouds your perception of reality this way, that's a serious mental illness.

[kgbnsf]

Regarding the subject topic of Californian's 'fleeing in droves' from the state, I have yet to see it in the Bay Area. Freeways are more crowded than ever, rents are at an all time high, vacancies at a low. Home values are increasing; Mass transit is at capacity. Construction is booming for office space, condos in downtown SF.

If what we are experiencing now is from people fleeing in droves, I would hate to see what it would be like when migration is at an influx.

[USDefault]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

I think its good that these people are leaving, and please dont come back. Our state economy has grown by a trillion dollars since thet started leaving.

Correction: the Fed's balance sheet has grown, by trillions of dollars. And I don't know what you mean by the state economy "growing" by a trillion, given California had to slash and burn its bloated budget just a few years ago. And your statement also is in direct contradiction to the California government's own pronouncements, who regularly were issuing dire warnings about "revenue" shortfalls, i.e. tax confiscation wasn't enough to pay liabilities.

Three things that have grown in California: (1) unfunded liabilities and debt burden, now in the hundreds of billions of dollars; (2) taxes, including sales taxes and income taxes, thereby taking even more money out of the wallets of ordinary Californians; (3) bankrupt cities, and many more are on the way.

Silicon Valley basically took over the world economy since they started leaving.

Correction: Quantitative easing, Federal Reserve money printing, and highly distorted interest rates have taken over the world economy. Think Twitter, a company that has never turned a profit as a public company, yet is accorded a whopping $30+ billion in market capitalization.

There is no better place in the world than California-if they cant see that then they dont deserve to be here.

The hubris of the defeated.

Now, I would ask you to think logically and critically, relying on basic math skills, to answer the following questions:

1. If California's economy has really "grown by a trillion dollars," why did Stockton declare bankruptcy?

2. If California's economy has really "grown by a trillion dollars," why did Vallejo declare bankruptcy?

3. If California's economy has really "grown by a trillion dollars," why did San Bernardino declare bankruptcy?

4. If California's economy has really "grown by a trillion dollars," why did Mammoth Lakes declare bankruptcy?

5. If California's economy has really "grown by a trillion dollars," why did Desert Hot Springs not only declare bankruptcy once, but now has declared a second financial emergency and may declare bankruptcy for a second time?

Are these the signposts of a healthy and growing economy? Is this the imprimatur of a robust middle class?

Politicians lie. Pension fund boards lie. Bankers lie. Bankruptcy tells the truth.

[oldtrader]

I don't understand something. How are illegal immigrants not paying taxes? If they are working someplace and getting a paycheck then how are taxes not being taken out of their check?

A lot of illegals work off the books, paid cash under the table and have nothing withheld.

A lot of illegals, do not pay income tax. In fact 46% of American workers do not pay income taxes. The majority of the illegals, do no not earn enough to pay income taxes.

The middle class educated people that are leaving the state did pay income taxes. The poor people that are replacing them especially the illegals, do not pay income taxes.

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by oldtrader

A lot of illegals work off the books, paid cash under the table and have nothing withheld.

A lot of illegals, do not pay income tax. In fact 46% of American workers do not pay income taxes. The majority of the illegals, do no not earn enough to pay income taxes.

The middle class educated people that are leaving the state did pay income taxes. The poor people that are replacing them especially the illegals, do not pay income taxes.

I don't subscribe to the notion that CA is about to fall off a cliff, but it's fair to say that there are some unfavorable trends. That to me would be the more reasonable position whenever this and similar discussions come up. CA has a lot going for it, is far from completely losing its appeal, but it's not without issues either. These threads typically turn into a battle between 2 camps, one believes nothing is right about CA and the other believes nothing is wrong.

There is a saying, some call it the law of human nature, that does support the gist of what you have been saying on this thread though. "You get more of what you subsidize and less of what you tax." You hear this often for a reason, it's fairly accurate.

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

I think its good that these people are leaving, and please dont come back. Our state economy has grown by a trillion dollars since thet started leaving. Silicon Valley basically took over the world economy since they started leaving. LAs crime rate has fallen to below average since they started leaving. Democrats now have a supermajority in the state legislature because these wet blanket complainers left. The state's best days are yet to come and we dont need them here holding us back. There is no better place in the world than California-if they cant see that then they dont deserve to be here.

You're better than this. There are some serious flaws to your logic here. I assume this was all tongue in cheek...

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

You're better than this. There are some serious flaws to your logic here. I assume this was all tongue in cheek...

Caraway, do you understand the frustration behind montclairs post?