Californians are fleeing the state in droves.....273,833 people lost since 2010 (buy, go bankrupt)

[pch1013]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

Boosters and others who cling to CA for reasons related to the perception of social liberalism (and other intangible attributes) will also be in denial of the plight of the workingman and the middle class.

Tone deaf.

I live in CA because I love riding motorcycles. And this is the best place in the country to do it -- by at least an order of magnitude.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by Ghostly1

If it's so wonderful then no defense is necessary.

You could say that about USA, but I'm not sure the Pentagon would agree.

We are barraged by more CA haters than any other state gets by far, so yeah, we defend it. A great deal of envy from unfortunate places afar, but simply lying down and taking what is so much outright BS ain't gonna happen.

[Ghostly1]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

You could say that about USA, but I'm not sure the Pentagon would agree.

We are barraged by more CA haters than any other state gets by far, so yeah, we defend it. A great deal of envy from unfortunate places afar, but simply lying down and taking what is so much outright BS ain't gonna happen.

And hurling even more of it and more hatred back solves nothing. But that would take some common sense and maturity to discern. Seething anger does nothing but destroy the vessel that harbors it.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by Ghostly1

And hurling even more of it and more hatred back solves nothing. But that would take some common sense and maturity to discern. Seething anger does nothing but destroy the vessel that harbors it.

Seething anger, nothing! It's actually great sport!

[red4ce]

Now that you mention it, driving to DTLA hasn't been as awful as I used to remember it being.

[nslander]

Originally Posted by Ghostly1

And hurling even more of it and more hatred back solves nothing.

Why are only those to the left of Ted Cruz expected to heed this? Paleo-cons thoroughly dominate our radiowaves with their malevolent schtick, but the only time it's called out in our popular discourse is after a long overdue but inevitable return of fire. Reason is ignored in our culture.

[Ghostly1]

Originally Posted by nslander

Why are only those to the left of Ted Cruz expected to heed this? Paleo-cons thoroughly dominate our radiowaves with their malevolent schtick, but the only time it's called out in our popular discourse is after a long overdue but inevitable return of fire. Reason is ignored in our culture.

Most unfortunately, I must concur.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

OK so you and 25 other people live here for your love of liberalism. I'll say again, if CA had the same weather and topography (i.e flat) as TX it would be just another state. Naturally politics touches us all. I think you would really see a difference moving between the US and Russia. I've hardly noticed the politics moving between states. You can definitely argue cost of living is tied to politics, but so is supply and demand for areas with great scenery and weather. Political ideology is not why people live in CA. I'm pretty darned certain of that.

You have a lot of spite for your country, which happens to be bigger than CA. Do you consider yourself American or just Californian?

Caraway do you actually talk to people in CA? There are many people who have moved here for the political reasons you say no one cares about. They may not say so right away (people tend not to talk about such things when they don't know you, shocker) but give many of them a chance to feel you out and after a while they eventually will start adding comments like, "and it's so much less conservative than where I'm from, I really like it", or some variation of that. Unlike conservatives, liberal people have a tendency to want to be around like minded people rather than living in an area and griping about how unlike you and what you like the place is. Since you seem to be using City-Data forums as a reference, I challenge you to go find threads started by ex Californians in other state forums griping about how backwards and conservative it is. I'm sure those numbers will be far lower than the number of threads in this forum constantly whining about the liberal politics as if that will somehow make everything better.

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Caraway do you actually talk to people in CA? There are many people who have moved here for the political reasons you say no one cares about. They may not say so right away (people tend not to talk about such things when they don't know you, shocker) but give many of them a chance to feel you out and after a while they eventually will start adding comments like, "and it's so much less conservative than where I'm from, I really like it", or some variation of that. Unlike conservatives, liberal people have a tendency to want to be around like minded people rather than living in an area and griping about how unlike you and what you like the place is. Since you seem to be using City-Data forums as a reference, I challenge you to go find threads started by ex Californians in other state forums griping about how backwards and conservative it is. I'm sure those numbers will be far lower than the number of threads in this forum constantly whining about the liberal politics as if that will somehow make everything better.

I've only been out of CA for 8 months. I agree with some of what you are saying though. Let me put it a different way.

1. I won't discount that the more ideological one is, the stronger a factor politics will be in where they live. I'll ask you to question whether or not someone mentioning politics is mentioning it as merely one of many factors, or if it is THE factor?

2. I have an uber leftist friend who moved to CA mostly because of the weather. He loves the weather and loves the beaches. If there were two states just like CA, 1 being liberal and 1 being conservative, he'd certainly pick the liberal version. I don't think he'd leave CA if it turned conservative. Maybe. As I say above, I don't rule out politics being a factor. How big a factor would depend on how far to the left or right you are. I just don't think it is THE factor. In my experience CA, especially SoCal, is chock full of people who would sell their soul for good weather. They are people who gave up all they know as home, all of their friends and family to avoid scraping frost off their windshield or dripping in sweat from a hot and muggy day. This is the #1 reason IMHO. The scenery, beaches, mountains, etc. are icing on the cake.

3. I've noticed the same thing you have about liberals being more willing to move to an area with like minded people. I'll take it a step further and say that they are more willing to pack up and move period. If a place is drop dead gorgeous and has good weather liberals will think nothing about packing up and moving there. This is why you see some of the most desirable parts of the country so liberal. It's no coincidence that some of the most liberal areas of the US are also scenic, blessed with good weather, a funky mountain town, etc.

4. It's easy to see why some on the far right will leave so vocally. These are probably people who came to CA for all of the things mother nature made and just couldn't take it anymore. If CA was conservative you'd see the same rants from liberals. They'd still move here for the weather, beaches, and mountains. Some would break down and rant upon exit. However, I think these forums grossly exaggerate the extent to which that is happening. Most people leave for jobs, finances, miss family, etc. Reading C/D could leave one to believe conservatives are fleeing due to politics, but I just don't believe it. I have known people to move and mention politics, but it wasn't their main reason. It wasn't what really caused them to move. It usually goes like this. They move because they can't afford a nice home and along the way blame politics for this.

In a nutshell, politics is "a" factor, but not "the" factor for most people. It might be an item on a checklist when evaluating an area, but it's unlikely ever the sole criteria. It might be for people on the fringes, but not anyone else. Yes, people may mention politics as being a factor, but ask them if it was THE factor. Would they really move to someplace hot and muggy if the politics was different? Would they move to someplace flat and freezing if the politics was different? I don't think they would.

[Gentoo]

1. I won't discount that the more ideological one is, the stronger a factor politics will be in where they live. I'll ask you to question whether or not someone mentioning politics is mentioning it as merely one of many factors, or if it is THE factor?

Only the person in question will ever know the complete answer to this. I will say that it seems to be a much bigger influence for those on the left than those on the right. Granted, there are those on the right who also make decisions like this too. My ex girlfriends father turned down a position offered to him in San Francisco which would have been a good pay raise for him. His exact reason was that, he didn't want to be around liberal politics and didn't simply want to chase money around and feel like a fish out of water. There are lots of people who feel this way. You are right down the middle so this of course doesn't seem like something people would do but it does happen, more often than you are aware of.

2. I have an uber leftist friend who moved to CA mostly because of the weather. He loves the weather and loves the beaches. If there were two states just like CA, 1 being liberal and 1 being conservative, he'd certainly pick the liberal version. I don't think he'd leave CA if it turned conservative. Maybe. As I say above, I don't rule out politics being a factor. How big a factor would depend on how far to the left or right you are. I just don't think it is THE factor. In my experience CA, especially SoCal, is chock full of people who would sell their soul for good weather. They are people who gave up all they know as home, all of their friends and family to avoid scraping frost off their windshield or dripping in sweat from a hot and muggy day. This is the #1 reason IMHO. The scenery, beaches, mountains, etc. are icing on the cake.

I understand this. My liberal ass would live in a conservative area if it were cool more than a liberal area that is hot. But then again, I'm also not too threatened by others being conservative as much as I like to rile them up. My ex was conservative as was her family. And no, those weren't the reasons we broke up LOL.

3. I've noticed the same thing you have about liberals being more willing to move to an area with like minded people. I'll take it a step further and say that they are more willing to pack up and move period. If a place is drop dead gorgeous and has good weather liberals will think nothing about packing up and moving there. This is why you see some of the most desirable parts of the country so liberal. It's no coincidence that some of the most liberal areas of the US are also scenic, blessed with good weather, a funky mountain town, etc.

Good observation, liberal people do have a tendency to just pick up and go simply because they want to.

It's easy to see why some on the far right will leave so vocally. These are probably people who came to CA for all of the things mother nature made and just couldn't take it anymore. If CA was conservative you'd see the same rants from liberals.

Not sure if I agree with that simply for the reason's we've already agreed on.

. Reading C/D could leave one to believe conservatives are fleeing due to politics, but I just don't believe it.

Well that's definitely true! C-D is the epicenter of Chicken Littles and you and I just happen to participate in two of the forums they have infested big time.