We really dodged a bullet with SB 350, Brown flips out. (live, vs)

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

But you really don't know do you? And there are already signs that this deal might not be quite what Tesla promised:

Tesla announces lower wage than promised in NV deal

Tesla contracts with Mexico for Lithium "I can't say that Tesla intentionally misled us, but if we're the lithium capital of the world why are they going to Mexico?"

Panasonic sending hundreds of it's employees to Tesla

Only 1/2 the jobs at Tesla have to be offered to Nevada employees: "Every quarter, an audit of the jobs will be performed, Hill said, and if at least half the hires aren’t from Nevada, all the subsidies come off the table and Tesla would need to repay any benefits it received, with interest."

The promised economic benefits aren't based on fact: "To assume that the economic impact is $100 billion assumes that everybody who was ever going to work at that battery plant was unemployed," said Enrico Moretti, an economics professor at UC Berkeley"

I lived in Nevada, I watched this deal unfold, just as I watched Nevada hand out millions to Apple for a lights out data center that will never require more than a few employees. IMO this idea of paying companies to open shop in your state is as stupid as building stadiums and paying incentives to sports teams for agreeing to bring their team to your area, that is called the "field of schemes" for a good reason...

The tax breaks are 1.3b over 20 years and the economic impact is estimated at 100b over the same time. Maybe it ends up being 80b over that time instead of 100b, but it is not like they are going to close up shop in 20 years.

Plus the Panasonic employees are a smal % of the total employees and they are probably needed to help get production going and training.

Are you arguing that having companies pay taxes in your state and employee your citizens not worth it? If California had lower regulations and lower taxes companies would not think about moving infrastructure in the first place.

[nslander]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

If it was regulation that kept Tesla out of California, not the extra 750 million that NV offered, then explain why Tesla choose Arizona, Texas or New Mexico? It will be difficult for you because the only real answer is that they sold out to the highest bidder- Nevada. California had announced to Tesla that they would change the regulatory process for them, so I think that is a non-issue.

Or specifically, why did Tesla abandon NM immediately after CA upped the ante? Musk had an agreement with Gov. Richardson back in 2007- when Elon's supposed mobilizing objective was bringing battery production up quickly.

And NV's offer was closer to another $900 million in extended tax breaks and incentives. Oh, and NV gave up their land for free. Tesla closes on free Nevada land for gigafactory - Fortune

I'm going with the simplest explanation on this one.

[AndyChrono]

Originally Posted by nslander

Or specifically, why did Tesla abandon NM when CA upped the ante? Musk had an agreement with Gov. Richardson back in 2007- when Elon's supposed mobilizing objective was bringing battery production up quickly.

And NV's offer was closer to another $900 million in extended tax breaks and incentives. Oh, and NV gave up their land for free. Tesla closes on free Nevada land for gigafactory - Fortune

I'm going with the simplest explanation on this one.

Yeah this seems pretty straightforward. When another state offers you that much in tax breaks and incentives they'd be foolish not to take the money and then try and find wiggle room (which they are now doing). Tesla's annual revenue last year was $3.2 billion, so we're talking something like 25-30% of their total annual revenue in tax breaks/incentives. No way any company would pass that up - regs or no regs.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

The tax breaks are 1.3b over 20 years and the economic impact is estimated at 100b over the same time. Maybe it ends up being 80b over that time instead of 100b, but it is not like they are going to close up shop in 20 years.

two things about that...
neither you or I have ANY idea what kind of batteries will be used 20 years from now, putting all your eggs in a basket to get a payback 20 years from now on a lithium battery plant would have been tantamount to giving tax breaks to a company that made tubes for radios and TVs with the promise of a long term return when only a few years later they were completely obsolete and replaced by transistors.

And the 100 billion might be 80 billion? How about a link for that one because it is just as likely that the 100 billion will be zero if the technology becomes obsolete

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

These things are not either or, many factors go into where they decided to move. One of the factors that crossed California off the list was the severe regulation. Then the other states made various offers and NV was then chosen.

So far I have posted two links with references to the accommodations that California was willing to make in terms of regulations but I guess you don't believe in letting facts get in your way.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

So far I have posted two links with references to the accommodations that California was willing to make in terms of regulations but I guess you don't believe in letting facts get in your way.

So one link saying someone proposed a bill that would not pass somehow proves your point?

[nslander]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

So one link saying someone proposed a bill that would not pass somehow proves your point?

C'mon, dude. "A link saying someone proposed a bill" was an actual bill co-authored by an Republican and a Democrat- a Dem who was merely the senate pro-temp of a Democratic dominated state senate- pushed by the Governor with bipartisan support. There is zero reason to assume it would not have passed.

Bill Text - SB-1309 Battery manufacturing: electric vehicles and stationary uses.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by nslander

C'mon, dude. There is zero reason to think a bill co-authored by an Republican and a Democrat- actually the senate pro-temp of a Democratic dominated state senate- pushed by the Governor with bipartisan support would not pass. None.

Bill Text - SB-1309 Battery manufacturing: electric vehicles and stationary uses.

Then why didn't it pass? It didn't even make it out of committee.

If our overly burdensome regulations cost us this company, and we were willing to get rid of these regulation as you are suggesting to keep this company, why not get rid of the regulations all together so we can keep all the companies?

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

Then why didn't it pass? It didn't even make it out of committee.

If our overly burdensome regulations cost us this company, and we were willing to get rid of these regulation as you are suggesting to keep this company, why not get rid of the regulations all together so we can keep all the companies?

All rulers want as much control as they can get.

[nslander]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

Then why didn't it pass? It didn't even make it out of committee.

If our overly burdensome regulations cost us this company, and we were willing to get rid of these regulation as you are suggesting to keep this company, why not get rid of the regulations all together so we can keep all the companies?

Because Tesla announced the NV deal In September, 2014

Nevada Selected As Official Site for Tesla Battery Gigafactory | Tesla Motors

when the bill was still alive

Bill History

And by all means, let's deregulate to lure Yucca Mountain business while we're at it.