CA Legislators look to build 'firewall' against Trump, fund lawyers for immigrants costing tens of millions

[tikkasf]

Originally Posted by Vacanegro

That is quite easy. Many other countries do it. Visa application asks date(s) of travel and pregnancy status. No one allowed in without residency papers in the 9th month.

That is a good idea for those coming in on a VISA.......specially those coming from counties where there has been a past history of planned anchor baby births.....such as China

[CaliforniaGal]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Start a lawsuit against the State.

Oh, in Federal Court. Name names in it as well.

That's what we should do!

[phantompilot]

Originally Posted by steel7

I know the anchor babies are legal citizens. But the law should change which it most likely never will.

They are deemed that way (mistakenly) due to a policy, not due to any law. So they are NOT "legal" citizens. Since their status arises from policy rather than law, it would be more accurate to say that they are civil citizens, perhaps.

[phantompilot]

Originally Posted by tikkasf

That is a good idea for those coming in on a VISA.......specially those coming from counties where there has been a past history of planned anchor baby births.....such as China

GPS monitoring bracelets for all tourists from these locations, or for those "personal" Visas not sponsored by a bonded US business.

If someone really needs to import a person to the US on a temporary basis, they can surely afford the bond.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by phantompilot

They are deemed that way (mistakenly) due to a policy, not due to any law. So they are NOT "legal" citizens. Since their status arises from policy rather than law, it would be more accurate to say that they are civil citizens, perhaps.

They are deemed that way due to the 14th amendment

[MongooseHugger]

Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives

It makes far more logical sense to direct ones ire towards the industries that lure these poor undocumented workers, but where's the fun in that?! It's so much easier to scapegoat minorities!

I have exposed the businesses: https://patriotmongoose.wordpress.co...ty-supporters/

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Dude you post this in every thread about illegal immigration, and it's an outright lie, or some sort of indoctrination. It's scary how inaccurate your statement is because it relies on someone being completely blind to the actual reality in California for the past 5 decades.

The right/conservatives in California have ZERO power. The Democrat State Assembly has a super majority, the governorship, and all appointed offices. How is it any fault of "the right/conservatives" that illegal immigrant employment is not being looked at?

Are you being purposefully obtuse?

This is why the Republicans, though NOT the conservatives, are complicit too.

[phantompilot]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

They are deemed that way due to the 14th amendment

The citizenship clause of 14A says no such thing. It says only people subject to the jurisdiction of the US are citizens.

If this is unclear to you, that a foreign national is subject to the jurisdiction of their original/first nationality, then I can't help you.

Perhaps it would help resolve the confusion if you were aware of the remarks made on the floor of Congress by the author of this clause of the amendment, Senator Jacob Howard.

"This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."

Clear now?

[MongooseHugger]

Originally Posted by tikkasf

I think the issue of likely abuse of the HB1 Visa program needs to be addressed too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/16/op...kers.html?_r=0

I have tracked down those guys too: https://patriotmongoose.wordpress.co...-visa-pushers/

[MongooseHugger]

Originally Posted by RosieSD

You're missing a key point. Even if they do go to school here, they are still "illegal" and they don't have a lot of prospects for after high school. DACA has granted a temporary reprieve to many, but it is very limiting in terms of being able to work long term. Thus, most well paying professional jobs are closed. And, the options for education after high school are falso limited for undocumented students.

I saw this again and again with my former students. They and their parents were *shocked* to discover that college wasn't free. Since undocumented students aren't eligible for Federal financial aid, even with DACA, and the majority of U.S. colleges do not offer any institutional aid, their options for college -- even with a knowlegable school counselor helping them -- were limited. I've talked to many undocumented kids who were not my students who ended up not going to college at all; they just couldn't figure out the logistics of navigating the system.

Those kids ended up in the exact same place as their parents -- working in low paying unskilled jobs IF they were lucky. They didn't "get ahead" nor did they "help society." And, a certain percentage probably do end up getting involved with criminal activities.

Now, the undocumented kids who do somehow manage to navigate the system and get into college with some sort of cobbled together financial assistance, face another surprise.

They work hard to get through college (and there are a lot of challenges for undocumented kids that "regular" college kids, or even other international students do not face). But then they find out that a lot of professional careers and jobs are closed to them, despite having a college degree.

I saw this with my former students - great kids, went to great colleges/universities and did well and had goals and aspirations for themselves. But, they couldn't become doctors, nurses, lawyers, or even teachers in the U.S. due to their status. They couldn't get long term professional jobs. They had difficulty getting an employer to hire them for jobs typically open to college grads because of their undocumented status. They also can't be hired for an H-1 job because of their status in the U.S.; the only way they can qualify for an H-1 is to return to their home country. Again, DACA helped a bit, but it is still very limiting because it doesn't give citizenship and is only granted in two year increments.

Now, a tiny handful of my undocumented students (not many) chose a different route. They returned to their home countries to attend university. Doing so enabled them to move up into a more "middle class" lifestyle back in their home country. Two of my former students took this route and ended up coming back to the U.S. under an H-1 visa for computer science.

So, while I agree that we should make education available to all students living in the U.S., regardless of citizenship status, in reality I often wondered if we were really doing these children a service. Yes, we're educating them, but that education doesn't necessarily lead to the same place that a similar education in their home country might.

In terms of asking undocumented parents to pay something towards their undocumented kids' education here, I would propose doing it on a sliding scale basis based on family size and income. I think that would serve a couple of purposes. First, it would perhaps encourage parents considering moving here with their kids to think about options in their home country in addition to the idea of moving to American. Second, it would perhaps convince some families that it would be better to actually go the legal route to immigration because then education would be free. Third, it might help parents "invest" in their children's futures here a little more. Finally, it might shut down some of the "illegals get everything free!" cries from people who have never actually knowingly talked to an undocumented person in their lives.

But, it won't solve the full issue, and I honestly don't know what the solution is to this issue. As a school counselor, I just looked at the individual, not at the whole shebang. It is a very complex issue, and I see many different sides to it. I think that people who tout simplistic solutions like "build a wall" or "deport them all" don't understand how complex this issue really is; a solution can't be reduced to a jingo. If it could, then we would have solved the issue long ago, regardless of which party was in the White House.

But the solution regarding kids brought here by their parents definitely isn't as simple as "let's educate the kids then they will move up."

Oh boo hoo the illegals! What about all the American-born kids and adults that can't find jobs or lose their jobs due to the illegals or the H1B visa crap? Why are we always ignored and the foreigners always treated like the victims?

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by phantompilot

The citizenship clause of 14A says no such thing. It says only people subject to the jurisdiction of the US are citizens.
If this is unclear to you, that a foreign national is subject to the jurisdiction of their original/first nationality, then I can't help you.
Perhaps it would help resolve the confusion if you were aware of the remarks made on the floor of Congress by the author of this clause of the amendment, Senator Jacob Howard.
"This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."
Clear now?

Just so you know, I am not in favor of birth right citizenship, it's an anomaly and only exists in a few other countries, but that does not mean it will be possible, short of a constitutional amendment to change it. I don't have the time or the energy to have this argument again, I've gone through this at least 4 or 5 times in other threads.