CALEXIT: Would you support a secession? (tax, live in, costs)

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by AlongTheI-5

I stopped reading at "Fox News hired".

Typical. Read this which is not from Fox.

Stanford Study Reveals California Pensions Underfunded By $1 Trillion Or $93k Per Household | Zero Hedge

There is a whole new thread on this disaster.

[TheGoodUsernamesWereTaken]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Typical. Read this which is not from Fox.

Stanford Study Reveals California Pensions Underfunded By $1 Trillion Or $93k Per Household | Zero Hedge

There is a whole new thread on this disaster.

Not good. Not good at all.

[StanleysOwl]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

I won't argue that. In my first post I said it was absolutely possible. It astonishes me however, how many people think they can just look at how much goes to the federal government and assume all that will be savings they can use to make lives better in CA. Even if there was an environment where both the US and CA agreed to make this work in good spirit, and they forged collective trade and defense agreements, CA would still need to stand up an enormous amount of new agencies and institutions to replace the feds. Even in the best of scenarios a lot of people and business would initially leave. The tax, regulatory, and legal environment would be too uncertain to convince a lot of corporations to stay. Those are huge factors for large corporations.

Can it be done? Yes. I don't believe the world (recently) has ever seen anything like this though. We aren't talking about spinning off a region in a 3rd world nation. We are talking about separating what is now the 6th largest economy from the largest economy in the world. We are talking about splitting a modern, 1st world nation with a high standard of living and trying to do so in a manner that maintains that at current levels. Talk about mission impossible.

Both the US and CA could exist as thriving countries. They would both suffer at first. CA would absolutely lose a damaging number of people and business at the onset. Any notion that they would keep the 6th largest economy from day 1 is dreaming. I think it would take 20-30 years before everything stabilized and CA became a stable, thriving country.

On same page with you as far as how blindly ignorant the poster is that you responded to earlier. And mostly on your points of observation until you get to the part about the world not recently seeing anything similar in modern era. Also your guessing that so many people and corporations would pack up leaving the new California impaired for 30 years.

Borders have been redrawn and countries established and re establisjed thoughout history. Breakup of the Soviet Union comes to mind. Lots of african nations. Former colonies granted independence etc. all had to face deep structuring tasks and creating monetary systems, armies, etc. Sure its a big challenge. Sure its been done. And as many californians who might want to split for whatever reason wouldn't leave any hole that wouldnt be refilled as fast as they leave by folks thrilled to take their place in the new progressive utopia they would imagine us to become.

I doubt hardly any companies if any at all would take off either. Their reason for being here now wouldnt necessarily change. American companies do business all over the world. Why wouldnt the new nations developers negotiate advantageous terms to continue? The size of Californias market is not only bigger than many wealthy nations its also, well, wealthy as hell. Pays to be here. If companies arent nervous about operations in hundreds of other less secure places they damn sure wouldnt be in new California.

[StanleysOwl]

As for those who have projected that China or Russia would invade blah blah blah. How come China and Russia havent invaded Canada and Mexico? Both are rich with resources. Neither have impressive or large militrys. So much nonsense about this whole concept. If the US collectively decided to Balkanize while retaining a core union commitment every region would benefit and therefore become even stronger than now. No opposing forces would dare mess with the new union.

[AlongTheI-5]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Typical. Read this which is not from Fox.

Stanford Study Reveals California Pensions Underfunded By $1 Trillion Or $93k Per Household | Zero Hedge

There is a whole new thread on this disaster.

I quit reading your link just as soon as I saw the term ''pizzagate'' in an adjacent headline.

Sorry. I don't read right wing propaganda websites.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by AlongTheI-5

I quit reading your link just as soon as I saw the term ''pizzagate'' in an adjacent headline.

Sorry. I don't read right wing propaganda websites.

You are not reading anything and Stanford is not a right wing site, it is a college. Most web pages carry ADS, etc which they have nothing to do with the subject. You are exposing your inability to actually address facts.

But to help you check out all these sites with the same information:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Stan...utf-8&oe=utf-8

Now show that Stanford never said what is quoted.

[TheGoodUsernamesWereTaken]

New York Times: Trump's Tech Pal Peter Thiel Backs #Calexit

[goodie2shoes]

Originally Posted by minerfolda

I'd like them to go because it's one less state to bail out. And it's the largest one we will have to bail out.

??? judging about how much CA gives to the Federal Govt, the only one bailing out anyone is CA bailing out the Federal Govt and their horrendous spending. Especially diverting Federal CA tax revenues to the poor red states so their hillbillies citizen's don't have to pay State Income Taxes.

If CA seceded, the first States to collapse onto itself would be all the Red States that depend on Federal Aid. Which is all of them. lol

Who do you think is picking up all the tab when their own citizens aren't pay their portions? They make up the difference by demanding $$$ from the Federal Govt.

Just look at the facts.

red states receive more federal aid than they put in.
red states have the most people per population on welfare.

The lists goes on and on if you did actual research. Instead of just using blanket statements not backed up by actual fact.

Again, w/o the $360 Billion that CA puts into the pot. The Federal Govt would be broke.

And now that Trump is taking over, there are more reasons why CA should secede. The economy is about to Tank. CA should keep all money inside CA. We can survive and thrive if we didn't have to bailout all the blood sucking conservatives.

[Shooting Stars]

Originally Posted by expatCA

You are not reading anything and Stanford is not a right wing site, it is a college. Most web pages carry ADS, etc which they have nothing to do with the subject. You are exposing your inability to actually address facts.

But to help you check out all these sites with the same information:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Stan...utf-8&oe=utf-8

Now show that Stanford never said what is quoted.

Exactly.

It's a common tactic of those who don't want to address facts, to refuse to even read a source or check to see if other sources are saying the same thing.

And to question a Stanford University study, because some right-wing site is citing them, is hysterically funny.

The specific site that wrote about underfunded California pensions is not the issue. The issue is the Trillion dollar shortfall itself.

[NextStage]

Originally Posted by TheGoodUsernamesWereTaken

New York Times: Trump's Tech Pal Peter Thiel Backs #Calexit

Interesting article. Thank you. Makes me wonder though what Thiel thinks he'll get out of it.