California RECALL Megathread! (Mountain View, Arnold: salon, how much, income)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Radical347

These are pretty much exactly my thoughts. I respected his early action, but began to lose faith in him by the summer and now I'm fully on board with the recall.

The lockdowns were sold to us as a way to flatten the curve and not overload the hospitals while building up the proper testing, contract tracing, correct quarantine systems, capacity at hospital, etc. Lockdowns are against the US constitution and never should have happened or at the very least should have only been used as a last resort and/or if we are certain they will help with the endgame. It was also very troubling that one person that was able to make a decision that would ruin many people's livelihoods. However, I was willing to buy them at the time because of what we were promised. I didn't think this state or country had the ability or drive to properly build these up, but I was willing to give them a chance.

But by the summer, we didn't have any of these systems and it was clear that we never would except for maybe testing. So the lockdown should have ended immediately. The only things that made sense to keep were masks, limited indoor restrictions (i.e. capacity limits, social distancing) and maybe bans on crowded enclosed events. Also after the BLM protests, there was NO justification on banning anything outdoors. Period.

The strange half lockdown we were in over the summer made no sense. If we were trying to eliminate COVID, it wasn't enough, but there was no longer any chance of that. If we were worried about hospitals reaching capacity...we weren't anywhere close to it. Still, we appeared to very slowly be moving in the right direction, so I was willing to accept it.

Then came Newsom not following his own guidelines at the French Laundry incident, followed by a spate of other prominent politicians breaking his rules such as the SF mayor doing literally the exact same thing at the exact same place next day, SJ mayor having a big gathering at his house, and the LA city council member who voted to ban outdoor dining and then immediately went to dine outdoors. Even then, I wasn't quite on board with the recall.

But then he announced the December lockdown, with bans on outdoor dining and entertainment centers and all haircuts -- none of which have been shown to be covid drivers. That was when i started to support the recall. (And all of the idiotic Bay Area health officers who decided to "opt in early" also need to go, but unfortunately there's no way to recall them.) He clearly hadn't learned anything about science or the constitution, and it was also clear he had no issues with using dictator powers. (Otherwise, he would have convinced the legislature to initiate it.) The kicker is that he cut off the lifeline to those businesses just to make it look like he was doing something, and all that it got us was the world's biggest outbreak.

And even then, I might have thought having him fight to keep his seat (although let's be honest--he probably won't have to fight very hard) would be good enough to make him get his act together. I supported putting him up for a recall vote, but was open to voting for him to stay if I wasn't impressed by anyone else (which so far, I'm not...although I agree it's pointless to argue over what other candidates would have done.)

BUT--then he decides to gaslight the recall supporters as anti-mask, anti-immigrant, anti-vax, and hardcore Trump supporters. I'm sure some are, but none of these describe me and honestly it's the same with most of the other recall supporters I've talked to. As someone who has been suspicious of lockdowns since last summer, this also hits too close to all the bullying I've gotten most of last year for having any opinion other than "lockdowns are 100% the only way and anyone who disagrees is a grandma killer." Also, given that the primary reason that the recall vote has gotten so much traction is due to his poor handling of covid -- throwing in "anti-immigrant" rhetoric is a red herring and in just plain bad taste. So now I'm voting for him to go no matter what. At this point I'm still not impressed by Faulconer, but won't even think twice about voting for him over Newsom if no one better shows up.

What part of the constitution prohibits lockdowns? SCOTUS ruled that it was unconstitutional to close churches as long as other businesses where multiple people gather, i.e. grocery stores remained open, but they did not claim that lockdowns per se are unconstitutional.

And most of the organizers of this recall are well known nutters, anti-vaxxers or hardcore Trump supporters, I can't make a judgment about people who signed it, but I think a lot of them are just regular Republicans who desperately want to see a Republican Governor elected. I think it is more about politics than it is about Gavin Newsom who I don't particularly like but it's bizarre to read the desperate measures people go to to try to make him look like a monster.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by citizensadvocate

I am no fan of Newsom, but I believe CA would be just as restrictive if not more restrictive if any of the former governors or candidates including Mr Faulconer was in office.


Kevin Faulcaner just seems a wolf in sheeps skin who seem to support most Progressive policies just like any Democrat in California. Exactly a year ago Mr Faulcaner didn't even wait to see if shutting down parking lots would improve the crowding situation before abruptly turning open outdoor spaces into literal crime scenes with police tape everywhere. While recreating was encouraged there was no where to practically do so except on roads and sidewalks. Literally creating a police state in San Diego. San Diego and its surrounding cities had among the harshest lockdowns in CA. Even progressively ran San Francisco and Los Angeles didn't go nearly as far. San Francisco(despite being a very dense and crowded in tight space city and always had lots of tourism crowds never went farther than shutting down parking lots and certain close contact activites such as ball courts/playgrounds though Golden Gate and other parks and recreational areas remained accessible, while Los Angeles may have fenced off their beaches/boardwalks but other outdoor spaces remain open except during Easter. I believe if this guy was in office the whole state's outdoor spaces would end up the same way.
Though I guess that Scripps Ranch scientist was pretty much warning people in power in San Diego City and County as well as surrounding coastal cities to completely forbid outdoor activities at parks and beaches due to possible COVID19 in sea spray.

Well Faulconer did say he wouldn't have shut down businesses this past winter like Newsom did, of course we can never know whether he would have or not. But the impression I get is Faulconer seemed to moderate more on his response to COVID as time went on and we learned information while Gavin went back to the same lockdown mentality that despite there being tons of data out there had no data to actually justify it. We had, and still might have, the most restrictive COVID restrictions of any state. I find it hard to believe anyone would have been as bad or worse than with regards to that as Newsom.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

What part of the constitution prohibits lockdowns? SCOTUS ruled that it was unconstitutional to close churches as long as other businesses where multiple people gather, i.e. grocery stores remained open, but they did not claim that lockdowns per se are unconstitutional.

And most of the organizers of this recall are well known nutters, anti-vaxxers or hardcore Trump supporters, I can't make a judgment about people who signed it, but I think a lot of them are just regular Republicans who desperately want to see a Republican Governor elected. I think it is more about politics than it is about Gavin Newsom who I don't particularly like but it's bizarre to read the desperate measures people go to to try to make him look like a monster.

Like what exactly? Though it is ironic you say that as he and his supporters try to paint recall supporters as anti-immigrant, anti-vaxx, etc...

Newson got almost 2/3 of Latino voters yet that link you posted show nearly half favor a recall now. There is a reason many have turned on him and it's not "politics".

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by citizensadvocate

San Diego and its surrounding cities had among the harshest lockdowns in CA.

We did? News to me.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by sav858

Like what exactly? Though it is ironic you say that as he and his supporters try to paint recall supporters as anti-immigrant, anti-vaxx, etc...

Newson got almost 2/3 of Latino voters yet that link you posted show nearly half favor a recall now. There is a reason many have turned on him and it's not "politics".

What's ironic?

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

I dunno either. But the money is always a Yuge factor in a crunch. Steyer says he does NOT support the recall effort. Yet he goes out and hires the (expensive!) polling that evaluates the field, including himself in it. Steyer has so much wealth he is sometimes considered a balance to the Koch bros.

While Steyer’s money (like Bloomberg’s) couldn’t buy the POTUS pole position ... it will go a LOT further in CA alone.

That last sentence is a fair point considering how pay-to-play our state politics are. But then too, Newsom is no slouch when it comes to filling a campaign warchest and outspending his opponents.



It probably won't be much help that Steyer was part of Newsom's appointments to his ill-fated economic recovery committee though. As for Steyer's stance that he's against the recall, 'but hey, just in case you can vote for me if you feel like it', that was the same M.O. of a ton of contenders on the 2003 ticket --the ones who ran as protest candidates. Newsom seems more afraid of competition from Villaraigosa.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by joosoon

That last sentence is a fair point considering how pay-to-play our state politics are. But then too, Newsom is no slouch when it comes to filling a campaign warchest and outspending his opponents.



It probably won't be much help that Steyer was part of Newsom's appointments to his ill-fated economic recovery committee though. As for Steyer's stance that he's against the recall, 'but hey, just in case you can vote for me if you feel like it', that was the same M.O. of a ton of contenders on the 2003 ticket --the ones who ran as protest candidates. Newsom seems more afraid of competition from Villaraigosa.

Yes. To all ^^

[sav858]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

What's ironic?

You said people are resorting to desperate measures to try to paint him like a monster, which I am curious to what exactly you are referring to. Yet that is exactly what him and his supporters are doing about people who support the recall.

[BB_210]

Originally Posted by sav858

You said people are resorting to desperate measures to try to paint him like a monster, which I am curious to what exactly you are referring to. Yet that is exactly what him and his supporters are doing about people who support the recall.

And dismissing and ignoring all the balls he's dropped. They seem to focus on the French Laundry incident as the nothingburger driving the recall.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by sav858

Like what exactly? Though it is ironic you say that as he and his supporters try to paint recall supporters as anti-immigrant, anti-vaxx, etc...

Newson got almost 2/3 of Latino voters yet that link you posted show nearly half favor a recall now. There is a reason many have turned on him and it's not "politics".

Yeah, it's called many of them want to socialize regardless of the pandemic. Latin culture's love of that is incompatible with these times.

Anyway, I see some decent points by people of various belief systems, but ultimately Faulconer or probably anyone else who considered taking Newsom's place very likely would be equally mediocre, as are leaders of most other states and nations* and also California's economy probably was especially fragile re contagious disease and local leaders in two of the hardest-hit spots (LA and OC) are terrible. And Newsom won't be recalled.

*I think a new Arnold regime would have been a modest improvement, but I think he got that out of his system.