Bring the restrictions back or let it rip? (August: high crime, private schools)

[ThinkingOutsideTheBox]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

I won't argue with the claims this time, which are more factual. But your personal experiencem, "Biodude," I sense is in a largely male environment. Women are more prone to long-COVID, yeah most teachers of minors are women, and breakthrough infections cause lingering problems in more than a few cases.

Also, kids get months of problems at a higher rate than people think and while it seems rarely debilitating like it can be for adults, that certainly isn't good for them academically or otherwise. That will continue to be an issue until vaccination of school-age children is by far the norm

The virus in schools must be taken seriously, regardless of feelings about school unions. Even if it takes out only a few teachers per schools, most teachers are specialists, can't just slide in anyone to replace the chem instructor and the state doesn't seem smart enough to use my idea of having a permanent pool of high-quality subs on standby.

Cancel public schools all together: give families vouchers to pay for private or learning pods or homeschool. Regardless of Covid, public schools are nothing but indoctrination camps.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

The drum beating is still going. Many Unions are going to fight it. Why? Science right? Why fight the science?

Your elected representative, as suspect as that is, said it's time. Don't ya'all believe him now? This will be good.

[goodheathen]

I never voted for Gavin. He's obviously sleazy and prone to saying whatever he thinks helps his popularity. I've always been with mainstream scientists. The pandemic isn't over, even if as I hope the worst of it is.

[njbiodude]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

I won't argue with the claims this time, which are more factual. But your personal experiencem, "Biodude," I sense is in a largely male environment. Women are more prone to long-COVID, yeah most teachers of minors are women, and breakthrough infections cause lingering problems in more than a few cases.

Also, kids get months of problems at a higher rate than people think and while it seems rarely debilitating like it can be for adults, that certainly isn't good for them academically or otherwise. That will continue to be an issue until vaccination of school-age children is by far the norm

The virus in schools must be taken seriously, regardless of feelings about school unions .

I work in a healthcare facility, it's actually about 60% women.

I don't understand this nonsense of teachers being special. Truckers and grocery store workers, healthcare workers, police, fire dept all worked. Hell even a friends wife in finance with an MBA worked in a high rise in Manhattan while pregnant pre-vaccine. Older people with health issues can do admin work or possibly zoom teach sick students but theres no reason a healthy 35 year old woman shouldn't work in person. It's the union declaring teachers essential workers when it benefits them but not essential enough to work in person. Well if theyre not essential they can record their lectures and then be laid off and paid meager government benefits like many other people.

There was an Oxford study not too long ago that said the risk of death from covid in kids was one in several million (for vaccinated), and that almost 100% of "long-covid sufferers" (a tiny minority) had recovered within 8 weeks.

Teachers should just get vaccinated. If they're nutty they can wear an N95 too.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

I work in a healthcare facility, it's actually about 60% women.

I don't understand this nonsense of teachers being special. Truckers and grocery store workers, healthcare workers, police, fire dept all worked. Hell even a friends wife in finance with an MBA worked in a high rise in Manhattan while pregnant pre-vaccine. Older people with health issues can do admin work or possibly zoom teach sick students but theres no reason a healthy 35 year old woman shouldn't work in person. It's the union declaring teachers essential workers when it benefits them but not essential enough to work in person. Well if theyre not essential they can record their lectures and then be laid off and paid meager government benefits like many other people.

There was an Oxford study not too long ago that said the risk of death from covid in kids was one in several million (for vaccinated), and that almost 100% of "long-covid sufferers" (a tiny minority) had recovered within 8 weeks.

Teachers should just get vaccinated. If they're nutty they can wear an N95 too.

I will try one final time. Show a willingness to be reasonable and concede points, or I and others will conclude you're another ranting person to tune out.

I, not trusting a dismissive-sounding claim without a source that contradicts a high-sounding 30% I read recently, Googled Oxford study and a few other words.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/sep/...covid-children
No one is arguing about deaths in children, and I have no patience for "Only deaths matter."

Also, someone who works in a medical facility knows that between vaccination, extreme air filtration, and other safeguards, only careless or very vulnerable people therein have much chance of catching the virus. Most schools are less secure, and in most areas a much higher percentage of individuals in schools aren't vaccinated (because it isn't required for most ages of youths yet).

It doesn't matter how "essential" it is that teachers be on campus if the 'rule' is they must be and they don't want to. Unions fight because members want them to. Maybe because, on top of extra virus exposure, teachers are more neurotic than other workers and/or are more likely to have very young children at home (who are vulnerable). Teachers are relatively hard to replace like I said, and most aren't paid well while being qualified for other jobs or eligible to retire. Society is in trouble if there's a teacher shortage.

[njbiodude]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

I will try one final time. Show a willingness to be reasonable and concede points, or I and others will conclude you're another ranting person to tune out.

I, not trusting a dismissive-sounding claim without a source that contradicts a high-sounding 30% I read recently, Googled Oxford study and a few other words.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/sep/...covid-children
No one is arguing about deaths in children, and I have no patience for "Only deaths matter."

Also, someone who works in a medical facility knows that between vaccination, extreme air filtration, and other safeguards, only careless or very vulnerable people therein have much chance of catching the virus. Most schools are less secure, and in most areas a much higher percentage of individuals in schools aren't vaccinated (because it isn't required for most ages of youths yet).

It doesn't matter how "essential" it is that teachers be on campus if the 'rule' is they must be and they don't want to. Unions fight because members want them to. Maybe because, on top of extra virus exposure, teachers are more neurotic than other workers and/or are more likely to have very young children at home (who are vulnerable). Teachers are relatively hard to replace like I said, and most aren't paid well while being qualified for other jobs or eligible to retire. Society is in trouble if there's a teacher shortage.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...198-X/fulltext

That one says 98% of children with long covid recovered in 8 weeks. And that "long-covid is extremely rare" to begin with. The one I just provided is peer reviewed and not part of some media source.

Also, there's literally vaccines now available for both children 5+ and adults and have been for quite a while. While some children may get lingering effects we as a society may need to deal with it and workcon treating the symptoms. I have a child I'd gladly send to school myself, even mask free. Covid will probably be around the rest of our lives, there's no hiding from it.

What would happen if sewage treatment workers had decided they didn't want to work? Police? Can we easily replace fireman? Electrical workers? Power plant operators?

In my area teachers refused to work almost a year and a half. After getting forced to nearly the front of the line for vaccines (in my county) in January teachers still refused to work. After a huge battle with the union they agreed students could go to class--but teachers weren't present and the kids watched their teachers on zoom while an employee not part of the union watched the kids.

The result? In some districts over 30% of the kids never logged onto online school once. Of the remaining children a solid percentage were 1-2 years behind in learning. How is that acceptable?

Oh and by the way healthcare workers are the most likely to catch covid and many have children as well. In my experience more than teachers actually because we're wealthier.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...198-X/fulltext

That one says 98% of children with long covid recovered in 8 weeks. And that "long-covid is extremely rare" to begin with. The one I just provided is peer reviewed and not part of some media source.

It's still being studied.

Long COVID and kids: more research is urgently needed:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00334-w

‘Scary and confusing’: When kids suffer from long COVID-19:
https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/s...-long-covid-19

What Happens When Kids Get Long COVID?
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/long-covid-in-kids

[Trekker99]

Think about the irony here.

Mask mandates expire in a couple of days and people can go about their public lives as they used to - as they should.

But the Covidians now have to face the awkwardness of going out in public all masked up cuz they still live in irrational fear.

And now the finger pointing, sneers, and snorts of derision will go the other way.

Sweet!

[njbiodude]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

It's still being studied.

Long COVID and kids: more research is urgently needed:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00334-w

‘Scary and confusing’: When kids suffer from long COVID-19:
https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/s...-long-covid-19

What Happens When Kids Get Long COVID?
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/long-covid-in-kids

Sure it happens. But the percentages are much lower than you quoted. And vaccines significantly reduce the risk as well and are fully available for school children from Kindergarten and up (if the kid is 4 maybe hold them back a year). If a parent is concerned they should vaccinate their kid.

Do you think covid is going away? Masks slightly reduced spread but they're not going to prevent a child from eventually getting it after they're in school for years.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...198-X/fulltext

That one says 98% of children with long covid recovered in 8 weeks. And that "long-covid is extremely rare" to begin with. The one I just provided is peer reviewed and not part of some media source.

Okay about the source itself, though I don't understand why others list significantly higher rates, but not okay about that quote. I think you made it up yourself. It's definitely not extremely rare in adults.

Also, there's literally vaccines now available for both children 5+ and adults and have been for quite a while. While some children may get lingering effects we as a society may need to deal with it and workcon treating the symptoms. I have a child I'd gladly send to school myself, even mask free. Covid will probably be around the rest of our lives, there's no hiding from it.

Uh-huh to some of that, but until those children are required to get vaccinated, many won't be, causing more risk to caretakers.

What would happen if sewage treatment workers had decided they didn't want to work? Police? Can we easily replace fireman? Electrical workers? Power plant operators?

Most of them have no reason to do that, cannot legally do that, or would be replaced (hello, anti-vax firefighters).

In my area teachers refused to work almost a year and a half. After getting forced to nearly the front of the line for vaccines (in my county) in January teachers still refused to work. After a huge battle with the union they agreed students could go to class--but teachers weren't present and the kids watched their teachers on zoom while an employee not part of the union watched the kids.

The result? In some districts over 30% of the kids never logged onto online school once. Of the remaining children a solid percentage were 1-2 years behind in learning. How is that acceptable?

Where was that? Links to articles? Regardless, you sound embittered, and the local experience doesn't mean teachers throughout the state and beyond don't have legitimate concerns.

Oh and by the way healthcare workers are the most likely to catch covid and many have children as well. In my experience more than teachers actually because we're wealthier.

Healthcare isn't the same as working in one of those facilities. Someone who does but doesn't interact with patients should be safer than a teacher. Air quality is very good in the parts of medical facilities not occupied by patients.