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Yes, more density is not necessarily better for everyone but that's hardly a problem. No need to mention smaler cities. The city of Toronto reserves 95% of its land for those to don't like high density. GTA, maybe 99.5%. Those folks have tons of choices, and none of them involve living in highrise apartments with walking distances to everything in life.
It is people like me who enjoy high density that have trouble finding a suitable place to live. Right now, density in downtown is not high enough. In 2036, that will be perfect for me.
So I never get the complaint that Toronto is getting too crowded. live in Leslie and Finch and enjoy all the open space. Those who argue against density in downtown are just being incredibly selfish, because they only care about their own needs as if others don't matter.
Botti, why does high density matter? Why, for example, does Lawrence Park or Lytton Park need high density?
Botti, why does high density matter? Why, for example, does Lawrence Park or Lytton Park need high density?
I never meant it is for everyone but for myself, I prefer high density because of the convenience. I value the ability to walk to everything. Sorry, I can't bear the idea of having drive to watch a movie or buy a pair of Jeans. I like to walk on streets full of retail and different kinds of people, not just houses and trees. I hate the idea of driving out of a necessity of life. In bigger cities, I love subways and trams everywhere providing easy access to every pocket of the city.
I think Lawrence Park is incredibly boring. First, it has just homes and trees. Second, it has all the same people from essentially the same background (mostly white, middle-upper class). And third, it needs a car to do anything. It doesn't necessariy "need" high density, because its existence doesn't matter to me at all. I will never had a reason to go there, unless once in 10 years, I have to meet someone who happens to live there.
And that's from a personal perspective. From a wider societal perspective, dense cities consume less energy and cause less pollution (although some research attempts to prove otherwise, but come on). It facilitates interpersonal communication and creates new ideas and innovation that sparsely populated areas can't. It creates economies of scale which make smaller business a lot more likely to succeed, and it also creates more jobs believe it or not.
Low density offers more living space and trees. That's it. I know Lawrence Park is a highly desirable neighourhood and only the rich get to live there, but with all seriousness. it is not attractive to me whatsoever. I'd rather live in that ugly condo called "Aura” than a Victrian house in Lawrence Park staring at trees and squirrel all day. If I do like trees and the nature, I would live in a rural setting.
If everyone in Toronto lives in places like Lawrence Park, only a bit denser like Houston, the city needs to be more than twice as big geographically, and we wouldn't have any public transit, or maybe just buses (Mississauga has higher density) and congestion will be twice as bad. If the entire world lives like Lawrence Park, the earth would be destroyed in 10 years.
Of course I don't blame people for thinking "I need to live in a tree lined safe neighbourhood with a nice backyard and my BBQ lifestyle", but I have my reason not to like such places.
It is people like me who enjoy high density that have trouble finding a suitable place to live. Right now, density in downtown is not high enough. In 2036, that will be perfect for me.
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Its really an individual thing. I'm not going to criticize anyone who prefers a certain type of density and urbanity or even more tame suburban life. There are a lot of people who do prefer living in a tower in a park or SFH and driving everywhere to get their stuff. Certainly in DT Toronto, you don't need a car and can get everything you need by walking or PT. As for it not being dense enough, the core is growing by about 10K per year in a pretty small footprint so its growing about as fast as any other core is on the continent and certainly more than any other core in Canada. That said, the perfect level of density in a core really depends on the person. I won't complain as DT Toronto becomes more dense - its the perfect part of the city to be that way.
As for suburban density - T.O burbs are among the highest in N.A. Compared to Dallas or Houston it isn't even close.
Greater Houston has a similar population as the Greater Toronto Area, but that is over 26000 sq km.. The GTA does that in 7124 sq km.. So saying surburban Toronto's density is just a bit over a city like Houston is simply not true - if you think suburban hell in Toronto couldn't get worse in N.A - think again lol..
Its really an individual thing. I'm not going to criticize anyone who prefers a certain type of density and urbanity or even more tame suburban life. There are a lot of people who do prefer living in a tower in a park or SFH and driving everywhere to get their stuff. Certainly in DT Toronto, you don't need a car and can get everything you need by walking or PT. As for it not being dense enough, the core is growing by about 10K per year in a pretty small footprint so its growing about as fast as any other core is on the continent and certainly more than any other core in Canada. That said, the perfect level of density in a core really depends on the person. I won't complain as DT Toronto becomes more dense - its the perfect part of the city to be that way.
As for suburban density - T.O burbs are among the highest in N.A. Compared to Dallas or Houston it isn't even close.
Greater Houston has a similar population as the Greater Toronto Area, but that is over 26000 sq km.. The GTA does that in 7124 sq km.. So saying surburban Toronto's density is just a bit over a city like Houston is simply not true - if you think suburban hell in Toronto couldn't get worse in N.A - think again lol..
Yup. I like density done right. Our suburbs have pockets of density, but I still can't see myself living there. I like living in the hub of the city.
I could live in Montreal or Toronto fairly easily....but ( sounding like a broken record ) I would miss the ocean, the mountains and the forests that are literally just out my door. That is what makes Vancouver's downtown different from Montreal and Toronto.
Yup. I like density done right. Our suburbs have pockets of density, but I still can't see myself living there. I like living in the hub of the city.
I could live in Montreal or Toronto fairly easily....but ( sounding like a broken record ) I would miss the ocean, the mountains and the forests that are literally just out my door. That is what makes Vancouver's downtown different from Montreal and Toronto.
Hey if you live in the place you love it really doesn't matter what anyone else says or prefers. I too would have no issues living in Vancouver or Montreal. Honestly, as I get older I could also see myself enjoying living in a smaller city like Halifax. For now Toronto works for me but we all change as time goes by.. Plus I have family/friends/work commitments here that enrich my life. It would be hard to just leave those.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
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Originally Posted by fusion2
Hey if you live in the place you love it really doesn't matter what anyone else says or prefers. I too would have no issues living in Vancouver or Montreal. Honestly, as I get older I could also see myself enjoying living in a smaller city like Halifax. For now Toronto works for me but we all change as time goes by.. Plus I have family/friends/work commitments here that enrich my life. It would be hard to just leave those.
I could totally see myself living in laid back yet vibrant little a city like St. John's, but then I saw the headline about the April snowstorm with some homes being buried up over the roof in parts of Newfoundland, and ahhh.... well.. yikes! Hubby wants to move back east to be closer to family, a nice smaller yet vibrant city like Burlington, VT would fit the bill. Totally agree on tastes changing as I get older. I'd think that if I had Nat's situation of having easy access to Stanley Park, I wouldn't be as bothered by the big city rat race. It's easy to lose yourself and leave the city behind in Vancouver, definitely a unique attribute.
I could totally see myself living in laid back yet vibrant little a city like St. John's, but then I saw the headline about the April snowstorm with some homes being buried up over the roof in parts of Newfoundland, and ahhh.... well.. yikes! Hubby wants to move back east to be closer to family, a nice smaller yet vibrant city like Burlington, VT would fit the bill. Totally agree on tastes changing as I get older. I'd think that if I had Nat's situation of having easy access to Stanley Park, I wouldn't be as bothered by the big city rat race. It's easy to lose yourself and leave the city behind in Vancouver, definitely a unique attribute.
Ha - yeah Eastern Canada can still get hammered well into April. Summers are also a bit cooler too.. Thanks for the reality check regarding Halifax lol.. I've checked out Burlington VT based on what you have said about it and it looks great. Nice urbanity, architecture and progressive populace but also pretty close to some major urban areas!
I think the most realistic retirement option for us is actually outside of Canamerica... I'm trying to push Thailand but will probably have to settle on somewhere Latin America... It's still a loooong way of course off of course, decades of work to go
I could totally see myself living in laid back yet vibrant little a city like St. John's, but then I saw the headline about the April snowstorm with some homes being buried up over the roof in parts of Newfoundland, and ahhh.... well.. yikes! Hubby wants to move back east to be closer to family, a nice smaller yet vibrant city like Burlington, VT would fit the bill. Totally agree on tastes changing as I get older. I'd think that if I had Nat's situation of having easy access to Stanley Park, I wouldn't be as bothered by the big city rat race. It's easy to lose yourself and leave the city behind in Vancouver, definitely a unique attribute.
I can see myself wanting to move one day. In fact I was looking at property online, for fun, to see what I could get. Saw some really nice places that would quadruple my living space, give some land, by a lake near a small town. Tempting...until I realized, that I would get bored pretty quickly. Great for a holiday, but to live without easy access to cafes, restaurants and just people watching, would drive me insane.
A city like Halifax would do. It at least has the ocean. A friend has moved to Nova Scotia after retiring. He and his partner LOVE it. They are in the countryside, near Lunenberg.
Some other friends ( Americans ) moved to Burlington, VT. Their place looked great, again in the country. They stayed 3 years and now have moved further south. I'm assuming for the weather, but they said good things about Burlington.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
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Originally Posted by Natnasci
A city like Halifax would do. It at least has the ocean. A friend has moved to Nova Scotia after retiring. He and his partner LOVE it. They are in the countryside, near Lunenberg.
One of the reasons why its so easy to fall in love with parts of Atlantic Canada is the people are so darn friendly there. Just really good characters up in those parts
I haven't been to Halifax yet, other than being hurried through YHZ on a flight connection from St. John's to Boston. Historically the city has had to endure some big tragedies, interesting how the Citadel dominates a huge chunk of donwtown, definitely a place with a very storied past. I'd go for the lobster rolls, and check out Cape Breton Island and PEI if I was traveling around there. One of my friends from LA did a bike tour of PEI last summer and he said Charlottetown had a really quaint yet very lively downtown. Might be a bit smallish, Halifax would fill the urban voids.
Last edited by Champ le monstre du lac; 04-07-2017 at 09:48 PM..
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,750 posts, read 23,822,981 times
Reputation: 14665
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
Ha - yeah Eastern Canada can still get hammered well into April. Summers are also a bit cooler too.. Thanks for the reality check regarding Halifax lol.. I've checked out Burlington VT based on what you have said about it and it looks great. Nice urbanity, architecture and progressive populace but also pretty close to some major urban areas!
I think the most realistic retirement option for us is actually outside of Canamerica... I'm trying to push Thailand but will probably have to settle on somewhere Latin America... It's still a loooong way of course off of course, decades of work to go
Burlington also has a really scenic location on Lake Champlain, sunsets with an Adirondack backdrop on the horizon. And it's super close to Canada.
Hey ya know, keep the faith. You'll get your windfall, and perhaps Thailand too. The power of a dream my friend.
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Hubby wants to move back east to be closer to family, a nice smaller yet vibrant city like Burlington, VT would fit the bill. Totally agree on tastes changing as I get older. I'd think that if I had Nat's situation of having easy access to Stanley Park, I wouldn't be as bothered by the big city rat race. It's easy to lose yourself and leave the city behind in Vancouver, definitely a unique attribute.
