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Old 11-04-2019, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Canada
14,735 posts, read 15,043,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
I find it interesting that bannock is commonly made with ingredients introduced by European immigrants (wheat flour and lard), yet the First Nations folks have made it their own.

The natives actually did already have their own type of "bannock" or "scones" that they made as a staple food long before Europeans arrived and introduced the Scottish bannock that used wheat flour and pork or beef lard and was fried in lard. The biggest difference between native bannock and Scottish bannock was that the native bread wasn't fried though, it was baked, and it was made out of other ground grain flours and wild animals fats, often also with various sweet berries included in the recipe which then made it more like scones.

The game changer was when Europeans came along and the Europeans introduced metal cookware and utensils and the concept of frying foods in metal cookware. The natives then also adopted frying using metal cookware as an additional method for cooking foods and that included frying their own native version of bannock the way they saw Europeans doing it. Both the natives and the Europeans then called the native fried version "Indian Fry Bread" but later referred to is as "bannock", which indeed it was bannock and was known as either Indian or Scottish bannock once the natives started using the European recipe which called for wheat flour and pork or beef lard. The natives here on the west coast still call it Indian Fry Bread as well as Bannock and they still often use other types of flours, wild animal lards and wild berries for native authenticity .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
The same can be said of beads.

However aren't a lot dishes, in Canada and the USA a fusion, or sometimes an exact copy of a dish that came from Europe or other places.

" American as apple pie " is a saying I never got, since apple pie is not American, and the first written apple pie recipe goes back to England in 1381.

Historically that "American as apple pie" expression came about because of John Chapman, a missionary and cunning nursery man who introduced apples, viable apple seeds, apple cider vinegar and consequently, apple pies to so many parts of North America (including into Canada). Better known and commemorated throughout the continent as ....... Johnny Appleseed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed


Regarding the beads - the natives already made their own varieties of beadware out of all manner of natural materials, metals and gems before Europeans arrived. The biggest difference was the native beads weren't mass manufactured out of transparent, brightly coloured glass the way the European glass beads were and that manufactured glass was a real wonder and novelty to the natives. Although they did have beads and drilled disks that were made out of volcanic glass, known as obsidian, but the obsidian was extremely difficult to drill so obsidian beads were reserved for high status people. They also made beads out of Rainbow Flint, in a process where a certain type of flint was fired to extreme heat to change the colour of it into rainbow irridescense.

I could go off on a real tangent about native beadware methods but I'll stop here - my whole point is the natives from North America to South America all made and used beads (as well as buttons and toggles) as sacred objects and decorative trade items that they used to trade with each other for thousands of years before Europeans arrived.
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Toronto
2,801 posts, read 3,859,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
Halal refers to the methods used to butcher the animals used for meat. It is the custom throughout the Middle East, including Israel. Halal meats are from animals that have been brutally butchered by having their throats slit, allowing for bleeding to death gradually.
I know what Halal is, but thank-you for reminding me. Halal, like kosher, also precludes certain types of food, lile pork, from comsumption.
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Old 11-04-2019, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
10,060 posts, read 12,813,278 times
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Who has eaten old-school bannock made with pre-European ingredients?
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Hakka people are not part of China’s Muslim community.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka_people
That was what I was trying to explain. I guess I did so poorly. The Hakka people and food of Southern China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, is different from the "hakka" cuisine of Toronto, which is usually Halal and infuses Chinese dishes with garam masala and other South and Central Asian spices to create a unique cuisine that, to my knowledge, is not popular outside the GTA.
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Old 11-05-2019, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Canada
14,735 posts, read 15,043,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Who has eaten old-school bannock made with pre-European ingredients?
I have tried some that was prepared with cattail flour, corn flour and also with acorn flour and although they were all edible and palatable and may likely be suitable for anyone who has never had experience with wheat flour I still prefer it made with white wheat flour (not whole wheat).

.
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Cambridge, MA/London, UK
3,867 posts, read 5,292,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
That was what I was trying to explain. I guess I did so poorly. The Hakka people and food of Southern China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, is different from the "hakka" cuisine of Toronto, which is usually Halal and infuses Chinese dishes with garam masala and other South and Central Asian spices to create a unique cuisine that, to my knowledge, is not popular outside the GTA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
I'm still trying to understand the origin of Toronto Hakka. From speaking to my Taiwanese and Southern Chinese students, I've learned that the Hakka of Taiwan, Guangdong, and Hong Kong - also referring to Hakka language and culture - is not the same as the halal Hakka of Toronto. I don't know how this Indo-Chinese mashup got the name hakka and everyone seems to have a different origin story.

From my understanding, the original Chinese Hakka is a traditional Chinese cuisine popular in...Hong Kong, Taiwan, and parts of Southern China. I'm not aware that it blends South Asian and Central Asian spices and flavors but is closer to traditional Southern coastal Chinese food in some ways. Heavy on the seafood, lots of labor-intesive prep, and with plenty of pork, which is a no-no in halal Chinese. I don't often find many ethnic Chinese diners at Toronto-style hakka restaurants. The staff is usually a mix of East and South Asian. The dishes are typically rich and spicy, with thick flavourful broths coating the meat, which is mostly chicken, beef, and shrimp.

And for the poster who asked if Toronto Hakka is simply an Indian and Chinese couple sharing recipes or a Toronto chef creating a fusion cuisine...it is neither. It seems to be a cuisine created by Chinese Muslim immigrants to the area (many from Xinjiang and the Turkic-speaking parts of China) who have taken tradition North American-style Chinese dishes like Kung Pao, Black Pepper, Black Bean, General Tso, and also more traditional (mostly Northern) Chinese dishes, then added South Asian and Central Asian ingredients and flavours, making it spicier, and then riffing on that. But it's also not that. It's the perfect metaphor for this city, really - all mixed up and happy to be that way. There are also South Asian dishes like curries, pakoras, and so on, but prepared differently from what you would find in a South Asian restaurant. These "hakka" restaurants used to be most common in the parts of the GTA with large Muslim populations (Muslims here also want to eat Chinese, but it's typically not halal...hence the birth of Toronto hakka), but is gaining popularity all over.

The signature dish of Toronto Hakka is called Chili Chicken. My favourite location is called Chili Chicken House, in Mississauga. Apparently, there is an excellent place in Mimico as well. Haven't checked it out yet.

https://www.blogto.com/toronto/the_b...ts_in_toronto/
Not poorly explained at all and I completely understood what you were saying. The only problem is that this type of Hakka food or Indo-Chinese (mainly Taiwanese) cooking has been popular in India for a long time.

There are different variations on Hakka cuisine. The traditional Hakka that I enjoy in Hong Kong is heavily seafood and vegetable dominated. This changes when you go to places like Malaysia and Singapore it changes slightly but is still considered Hakka cuisine.

The type of Hakka that you enjoy in the GTA is as mentioned Indian-Chinese food as the Hakka Chinese have settled in India for about two centuries and developed this food after arriving. Which is not surprising because that is kind of what people do everywhere they settle, ever tried Chinese Jamaican food for example? Its amazing.

So basically the GTA has alot of these places, many of which are great, but it definitely did not start in Toronto and has gained popularity in quite a few cities.
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Old 10-19-2021, 08:09 PM
 
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When you sea pie, do you eat it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZhIgqomkkM
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Old 04-22-2022, 07:18 PM
 
3,462 posts, read 2,789,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I have tried some that was prepared with cattail flour, corn flour and also with acorn flour and although they were all edible and palatable and may likely be suitable for anyone who has never had experience with wheat flour I still prefer it made with white wheat flour (not whole wheat).

.
They probably taste better cooked in bacon grease.
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Old 04-29-2022, 07:01 PM
 
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Reputation: 4330
Do you like spruce beer?
https://www.macleans.ca/society/life...f-spruce-beer/
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