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I'm sorry, but that really doesn't make any sense. You said they'd give her some, and then some more. Enough for a bull. Exactly like in a psych hospital. If they were going to bother to convince her to take something, they'd convince her to take her regular meds, and if they can convince her to take anything, she wouldn't need to be there.
Sigh. They will give her an anti anxiety drug - one that works immediately - not a mood stabilizing drug that takes two weeks to kick in - if she is having an anxiety attack. They would do that in a regular hospital, or assisted living, or a rehab center, or memory care. I know this for a fact because I've seen it administered to various loved ones in all of the above situations.
So no, if she is filled with anxiety and raising cane and upset, I do not expect them to put a lot of effort at that moment into starting her back on a regimen that takes two weeks to start working when her anxiety will need to be calmed at that moment.
And it will take enough for a bull to be effective on my very stubborn, very strong willed mother, most likely. I was being a bit facetious about that but maybe I wasn't clear enough.
Seroquel is a drug that takes weeks to be effective and in order for her to be compliant she has to take it every single day. Ativan (or other such anti anxiety drugs) is effective quickly and is not generally used every day so the odds of getting her to take one occasionally are greater than the odds of getting her to agree to a treatment plan that includes seroquel every day.
Sigh. They will give her an anti anxiety drug - one that works immediately - not a mood stabilizing drug that takes two weeks to kick in - if she is having an anxiety attack. They would do that in a regular hospital, or assisted living, or a rehab center, or memory care. I know this for a fact because I've seen it administered to various loved ones in all of the above situations.
So no, if she is filled with anxiety and raising cane and upset, I do not expect them to put a lot of effort at that moment into starting her back on a regimen that takes two weeks to start working when her anxiety will need to be calmed at that moment.
And it will take enough for a bull to be effective on my very stubborn, very strong willed mother, most likely. I was being a bit facetious about that but maybe I wasn't clear enough.
Seroquel has an immediate sedating effect, though I know it takes longer for mood stabilization. Anyway, sorry but what you are saying still doesn't make sense because according to your reports, she'd be like this everyday off meds so I do think they'd put her on meds. Were the other people you saw given just Ativan also off their psych meds?
Seroquel has an immediate sedating effect, though I know it takes longer for mood stabilization. Anyway, sorry but what you are saying still doesn't make sense because according to your reports, she'd be like this everyday off meds so I do think they'd put her on meds. Were the other people you saw given just Ativan also off their psych meds?
Her low daily dose of Seroquel would not be an effective drug for anxiety attacks. It is not supposed to be used occasionally - it's to be used daily. It is NOT going to be prescribed for occasional use when there are better, more suitable drugs for occasional use. It is not FDA approved for use for anxiety attacks.
Frankly, I'm sorry that you believe that some facility would just "put her on meds" like Seroquel - because that's not the way it works. They will not do this without a court order - her doctors have all made this very clear to me many times, including just a few days ago. She has the right to refuse this treatment - or any treatment for that matter, unless I take it to court and somehow manage to get a court order, which is very unlikely to come to pass. Look up whether or not a person can be FORCED to accept medication for bipolar disorder. Generally speaking, unless they have a history of violence, no.
But in the throes of an anxiety attack, something that works quickly, like Ativan, would be a typical treatment.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 09-11-2017 at 08:04 PM..
I'm not pulling this stuff out of a bodily orifice. I am going by what my mother's medical professionals have told me. I'm not making this stuff up or just pontificating or being "overly dramatic."
When my dad was admitted to a memory care unit, at first things were much like normal, as far as his personality was concerned. After about 3 months, it seems his personality was gone. He was not at all the same person, though I realize his mental abilities were getting worse. He continued to have the hallucinations (common with lewy body) but became almost non-verbal with family when we visited. Unfortunately, we were only able to visit usually on weekends.
So I don't know if he was just getting worse very quickly, or there was some other reason his personality seemed to change so quickly. We haven't talked to much about this as a family.
I guess I didn't think about a lot of this until reading this thread. He only lived 10 months after he was admitted, the time passed by so quickly I guess I didn't think enough about all of it.
When my dad was admitted to a memory care unit, at first things were much like normal, as far as his personality was concerned. After about 3 months, it seems his personality was gone. He was not at all the same person, though I realize his mental abilities were getting worse. He continued to have the hallucinations (common with lewy body) but became almost non-verbal with family when we visited. Unfortunately, we were only able to visit usually on weekends.
So I don't know if he was just getting worse very quickly, or there was some other reason his personality seemed to change so quickly. We haven't talked to much about this as a family.
I guess I didn't think about a lot of this until reading this thread. He only lived 10 months after he was admitted, the time passed by so quickly I guess I didn't think enough about all of it.
This thread has really made me think.
That's what I'm concerned about - the quality of life for my mom if she's moved out of her current situation into a situation with even fewer positive challenges, such as needing to remember to get on the bus, keeping up with when lunch is served, making her own phone calls using her address book, having her own writing tools (paper, pen, etc) for when she wants to try to write a poem (she's been working on a poem and just bought some supplies which would not be kept in her room at her disposal in memory care).
For instance, the other day right after I picked her up and right after I said, "Ok this is great - we're going to an estate sale, and then out to lunch and then to your doctor's appointment." She smiled excitedly and then after a minute she said, "OK...what are we going to do today?" Instead of repeating myself, I said, "What do you think we're going to go do?" She thought for a minute and then said, "Ummmmm, go to an estate sale and then out to lunch and then to the doctor?" "YES!" I said. "You are exactly right!"
Pretty sure that not everyone will push on her to try to hang onto her skills once she's moved out of her current situation. I mean, they will offer activities but it seems like it would be easy for her to slip into a less challenging environment and go down hill faster. She won't be surrounded by people who subconsciously push her to keep nimble mentally - instead she will be surrounded by people who are in many cases worse than she is mentally. I don't see it bringing out the best in her life or personality or abilities.
I'm not pulling this stuff out of a bodily orifice. I am going by what my mother's medical professionals have told me.
I know that, but first you were talking about manic, now it's shifted to 'anxiety attack', a term you have never used for your mother. I still contend that since her mania is not every now and then, it's every day that she isn't on her meds, according to you, that if they were to stand there to convince her to take meds, they'd try to convince her to take manic meds.
But whatever. I guess the hypothetical scene of giving ativan, and more ativan, enough for a bull was just part of a dramatization and not meant to be taken literally.
I'm not a psychic. I can't always tell what is real and part of the dramatic flare of your story-telling. I was curious why she isn't on anti-anxiety meds now and that's covered, I guess.
That's what I'm concerned about - the quality of life for my mom if she's moved out of her current situation into a situation with even fewer positive challenges, such as needing to remember to get on the bus, keeping up with when lunch is served, making her own phone calls using her address book, having her own writing tools (paper, pen, etc) for when she wants to try to write a poem (she's been working on a poem and just bought some supplies which would not be kept in her room at her disposal in memory care).
For instance, the other day right after I picked her up and right after I said, "Ok this is great - we're going to an estate sale, and then out to lunch and then to your doctor's appointment." She smiled excitedly and then after a minute she said, "OK...what are we going to do today?" Instead of repeating myself, I said, "What do you think we're going to go do?" She thought for a minute and then said, "Ummmmm, go to an estate sale and then out to lunch and then to the doctor?" "YES!" I said. "You are exactly right!"
Pretty sure that not everyone will push on her to try to hang onto her skills once she's moved out of her current situation. I mean, they will offer activities but it seems like it would be easy for her to slip into a less challenging environment and go down hill faster. She won't be surrounded by people who subconsciously push her to keep nimble mentally - instead she will be surrounded by people who are in many cases worse than she is mentally. I don't see it bringing out the best in her life or personality or abilities.
You already know the answer. It was discussed before that you won't take her on excursions if she doesn't take her meds, and now that there is a med nurse, you don't have to rely on her word.
I know that, but first you were talking about manic, now it's shifted to 'anxiety attack', a term you have never used for your mother. I still contend that since her mania is not every now and then, it's every day that she isn't on her meds, according to you, that if they were to stand there to convince her to take meds, they'd try to convince her to take manic meds.
But whatever. I guess the hypothetical scene of giving ativan, and more ativan, enough for a bull was just part of a dramatization and not meant to be taken literally.
I'm not a psychic. I can't always tell what is real and part of the dramatic flare of your story-telling. I was curious why she isn't on anti-anxiety meds now and that's covered, I guess.
I have used the term "anxiety" repeatedly to describe my mother's reaction when she's not on her meds. When she gets riled up, and starts pacing - it's a little difficult to tell where the mania ends and anxiety begins. And when a person is VERY full of anxiety it's a little difficult to tell where an overload of anxiety ends and a full on anxiety "attack" begins.
And she is manic OFTEN off her meds (I don' t think I've ever stated that she's manic every day she's off her meds). And OFTEN that mania descends into anxiety - in fact, that's it's usual trajectory. But once again, I don't think I've ever stated that the anxiety is every day either.
And what you said is that they would "put her on anti-psychotic meds," which definitely will not happen without a court order, which also will not happen since my mom does not have a history of violence.
Honestly I think we're splitting hairs here. No one is going to prescribe seroquel for occasional use as an anti anxiety medication. It's not even FDA approved for that. Ativan is very commonly prescribed though for anxiety - or anxiety attacks - or whatever you want to call it involving sudden and severe, well, anxiety. Which is what my mom suffers from after the mania runs it's course when she's untreated.
In fact, I've described this cycle over and over again on this thread - where she gets manic, and then instead of sinking into a more typical bipolar depression, instead she becomes more and more filled with anxiety. Her mania transforms into anxiety.
This is about the hundredth time I've described this - sorry you missed it over and over again in the past.
I seriously doubt that they even give Ativan to bulls - so yeah, I thought that tongue in cheek statement was pretty obviously not meant to be taken literally and didn't require psychic powers to figure out. My bad!
And by the way, I said "bull elephant," not "bull." That's some dramatic flair there for sure! SO much more interesting mental imagery! (Not meant to be taken literally - my mother looks nothing like a bull elephant and besides that, I think all bull elephants are males so there's that too.)
I'll tell you what - when I eventually move her to a memory care center, if they don't suggest Ativan for anxiety within the first 30 days she's there, I'll send you a $25 Amazon gift card.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 09-11-2017 at 08:30 PM..
You already know the answer. It was discussed before that you won't take her on excursions if she doesn't take her meds, and now that there is a med nurse, you don't have to rely on her word.
What?
Excursions are the least of my concerns if I move her out of her facility into a memory care facility. I'm not worried about my bi weekly visits with her, which will still continue - I'm more concerned about her daily interactions and daily life in that different environment and the effect that will have on her psyche and overall quality of life.
Honestly, are you trying to be helpful or what?
I'm done for the night - got a new book in the mail and it's got great reviews. A cup of tea and me, snuggled up with a good book in my delicious bed sounds fabulous.
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