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The law against declawing is going through the New Jersey legislature right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by catdad7x
I truly hope concern for the cats' welfare prevails over any other opposing arguments, and the good folks in the New Jersey legislature pass that law......
.... and the rest of this country soon follows suit.
The New Jersey bill passed Assembly 43-10!
Unfortunately when it went to the Senate it was removed from the agenda. (Temporary set back, we hope).
You need to read my posts better if you are going to quote me without directly quoting. You like to make up stuff that I never said, or apply your own skewed interpretation of it. I've noticed that, a lot.
Amputating the toes alters the cat's entire alignment. The cat can never walk correctly again. This kind of disability causes chronic pain in other parts of the body besides the amputation site. The cat has to walk on bones that were never meant to support weight, or her wrists.
How can you think that doesn't cause pain? Seriously?
The legs, the back, the hips, et cetera, are all affected. How is this known? Well, of course you can read about feline anatomy and learn it for yourself.
I have a "bad foot". This foot hurts all the time, and causes pain in my knees, hips, shoulders and back, all the time, because I cannot walk on it properly. My entire alignment is messed up.
It doesn't mean I don't live a normal life. I still hike, and work and enjoy all the things I've always enjoyed. I don't walk around moaning about how much pain I am in. but I have chronic pain, all the time.
There are things I can (and do) do for it. Special exercises. Special "boot" I wear when the foot is especially bad. Pain medication. Cats don't have that option.
What I said, if you would read my posts properly, is, cats don't show pain until they are in agony. This is common instinctual self protection because cats are prey animals. Showing pain shows vulnerability and makes the cat a target for predators.
If you would do a little research you would learn that this is so, and common knowledge. You will also find out that even vets cannot always judge a cat's pain level.
This is one of the reasons vets get away with all their lies about how cats are "fine" after having their toes amputated. People who insist on doing this to their cats don't want to believe their cat is in pain, and won't even be looking for signs. Of course they won't see them any way until the cat starts avoiding the litter box or biting. Then instead of addressing the pain, the cat gets dumped.
Dogs are rarely declawed (though there are documented cases) This is probably because dogs are not that stoic. They scream. They limp. They cry. They have no prey-animal instinct that makes them hide their suffering.
Vets who make a living off of declawing insist that cats feel "very little pain" and "all pain is gone in about 2 weeks". They do not address the long term effects of a cat living with her toes amputated. If they told people that they'd lose their gravy train.
Hm. My cat screams when I step on his toe. He shows a pain response when I do sub-q fluids. He bothered me one day when he was having bladder problems and I couldn't figure out what he wanted until I held up his pain med. He sat down like yes, that is what I want.
He herds me directly to whatever he wants or meows for it until I guess at it and get it right.
Yes I know that cats in the wild do not show pain (but dogs are similar in that aspect for the same reasons - you are wrong about that) and that domesticated cats retain the instinct but you always have sweeping generalizations about all cats being exactly the same and you present theories as facts.
Some people believe that every declawed cat in the world has pain forever but it's not a fact and as usual, you offer no scientific support for your assertions.
Many many people and animals have deformities from birth or from trauma or elective surgery that they adapt to and don't cause pain.
Cat's who have been de-clawed are no different. Many of them adapt perfectly well, although the chances of them not are far to great to even consider the procedure.
I just don't need to lie or exaggerate to make a point and I do not like dishonest discourse.
I also don't like the hyperbole scaring people from adopting a de-clawed cat. Knowing it MIGHT have problems is one thing - screaming from the rooftops that they all will, every time, is nonsense and unfair to the cats.
Why would anyone adopt a pet that according to you will always be in pain and pee in their bed? I'm sure glad I wasn't scared to adopt Her Highness.
It's enough to say just the truth. That the risks far outweigh any benefit. And if one cares more about maybe losing the original beauty of (usually one) piece of furniture while the cat learns proper places to scratch, they just shouldn't get one. Or they should get one that's already declawed in hopes that it's one that adjusted well from it.
I feel like people like that shouldn't own any pet. What will they do when puppy chews their $400 glasses? I said 'Well, I left them where she could get them, and that is what puppies are for' which is what you would do, but people who would de-claw a cat wouldn't tolerate what puppies and some grown dogs do either.
The truth is: Declawing is amputation of the last digit of every toe. Amputation of bone, tendon, ligament, along with claw.
The truth is, that cats walk on that toe that is amputated, and when the toes are amputated, the cat has to walk on a bone that was never meant to support weight, or his wrists. You apparently have no concept of what that means to the cat.
The cat cannot ever walk the way he was supposed to walk. He cannot stand, or balance correctly, there is stress on joints in a way that were never meant to be. This creates pain.
The truth is, this cripples the cat, for life. The truth is, when you amputate a necessary body part that a cat needs to stand, walk, climb and balance properly with, there is pain in the rest of the body, as the body tries to compensate for the missing parts.
Adapting to pain is not the same as not having pain.
"Science" costs money. The NYVMA spent close to $100,000 last year fighting the bill to outlaw declawing. You think they are going to spend money to prove it is harmful to cats?
"Science" changes daily. What "science" tells us one day is the exact opposite the next. What we are dealing with here are living breathing creatures that feel pain. While their skeletal system may be differently shaped from ours, they react the same way to amputations and mutilations. Unusual stress on joints, and misalignment, cause pain in those joints, and in the muscles supporting them. Look it up.
Amputated toe ends digging in sand or gravel for 15 years, you really think that doesn't hurt? Come on. Use your head.
Your examples are specious. Of course a cat squawks when you step on his foot. He is surprised and reacts. Giving sub q doesn't hurt. If it hurts him you are doing it wrong. He may jump a little when the needle goes in. It's a reaction to the needle poking in his skin. These are reactions. This is not the same thing as life long chronic pain brought on by needless amputations which cripple the cat.
I have never said that all declawed cats will have behavior problems. Once again you misquote me to serve your own purposes. What I said is all declawed cats will have chronic pain. It is simple common sense, when you amputate a necessary body part and expect the creature to walk on those stumps, that pain, not just in the feet, but all over, will result. It's common sense.
Some cats may "adapt" to that pain better than others. Does every human have the same pain threshold? No. Neither do cats, or any other living being. Every one is different. But when you take off the toes they walk on, crippling them, they will have pain.
LOL.. hell hath no fury like the anti-declawing brigade. lol Those same cats if left to their own devices would kills hundreds of birds and mice.. forget about the rest of nature and how a lion tears a zebra apart to get a meal, etc.. and we're worried about a few digits being cut off. These people would rather have the cats put to sleep than put them in a nice home where the owner might want them declawed. News flash.. nature is and always has been cruel. A disabled person who loses an arm adapts and can live a fine, pain free life.. it's all about mental attitude, and animals don't even have sentience. A co-worker is missing 2 fingers and has no pain and lives just fine. It's really mind over matter when it comes to a lot of life's circumstances.. you can let a situation bother you or you can suck it up and have a good attitude. Animals just live in the moment.. they don't have some regret over their owner's declawing. Stop humanizing them. Then they go and defend spaying and neutering.. you're taking away their sex drive! How cruel! Imagine if we removed all human's sex drive at birth... anyways I'll shut up now.
I didn't say the needle doesn't hurt. I said giving sub q doesn't hurt. The needle is tiny, and there is probably a bit of a sting when it goes in. It surprises kitty, so he jumps. I have administered sub q many times. It does not create life time pain on joints, or muscles, or paws. It can be stressful for kitty until s/he gets used to it.
As long as it's done in a way kitty can tolerate, most cats make the association between feeling better and getting sub q within a month or two and learn to accept it fairly well.
Comparing that to the pain caused by years of stress on a cat's joints and muscles and paws due to the crippling of toe amputations is ridiculous.
I didn't say the needle doesn't hurt. I said giving sub q doesn't hurt. The needle is tiny, and there is probably a bit of a sting when it goes in. It surprises kitty, so he jumps. I have administered sub q many times. It does not create life time pain on joints, or muscles, or paws. It can be stressful for kitty until s/he gets used to it.
As long as it's done in a way kitty can tolerate, most cats make the association between feeling better and getting sub q within a month or two and learn to accept it fairly well.
Comparing that to the pain caused by years of stress on a cat's joints and muscles and paws due to the crippling of toe amputations is ridiculous.
I would never compare the two, I was saying my kitty basically says 'ouch!' when I do that. 'A bit of a sting' is the same thing as 'a tiny bit of pain'. Lord.
The point being that they do not hide all pain! Some vaccinations sting when the liquid goes in and kitties react to that pain. They don't hide it.
I only had one with never a reaction and it's because the poor thing was so petrified of strangers that she froze in the hands of the Vet or techs. My other cats react. Hey, hoomins! This is no good!
I had begged my friend not to declaw her cat and I read articles about how to tell if they are having pain and I'm sorry to disappoint you, but she never showed any signs of it. (Maybe at first - but I wasn't there for that).
She also showed no signs of problems with walking or balance or jumping or anything. 19 years is a long time for those things to accumulate and if what you said is true for every cat signs of that accumulation would have been evident.
LOL.. hell hath no fury like the anti-declawing brigade. lol Those same cats if left to their own devices would kills hundreds of birds and mice.. forget about the rest of nature and how a lion tears a zebra apart to get a meal, etc.. and we're worried about a few digits being cut off. These people would rather have the cats put to sleep than put them in a nice home where the owner might want them declawed. News flash.. nature is and always has been cruel. A disabled person who loses an arm adapts and can live a fine, pain free life.. it's all about mental attitude, and animals don't even have sentience. A co-worker is missing 2 fingers and has no pain and lives just fine. It's really mind over matter when it comes to a lot of life's circumstances.. you can let a situation bother you or you can suck it up and have a good attitude. Animals just live in the moment.. they don't have some regret over their owner's declawing. Stop humanizing them. Then they go and defend spaying and neutering.. you're taking away their sex drive! How cruel! Imagine if we removed all human's sex drive at birth... anyways I'll shut up now.
LOL.. hell hath no fury like the anti-declawing brigade. lol Those same cats if left to their own devices would kills hundreds of birds and mice.. forget about the rest of nature and how a lion tears a zebra apart to get a meal, etc.. and we're worried about a few digits being cut off. These people would rather have the cats put to sleep than put them in a nice home where the owner might want them declawed. News flash.. nature is and always has been cruel. A disabled person who loses an arm adapts and can live a fine, pain free life.. it's all about mental attitude, and animals don't even have sentience. A co-worker is missing 2 fingers and has no pain and lives just fine. It's really mind over matter when it comes to a lot of life's circumstances.. you can let a situation bother you or you can suck it up and have a good attitude. Animals just live in the moment.. they don't have some regret over their owner's declawing. Stop humanizing them. Then they go and defend spaying and neutering.. you're taking away their sex drive! How cruel! Imagine if we removed all human's sex drive at birth... anyways I'll shut up now.
However, the amputation of toe digits called declawing is not natural. It's not something that happens in nature.
And I'm willing to bet your co-worker didn't cut off his two fingers intentionally. Same with your hypothetical disabled armless person.
Neutering an animal causes minimal pain and it helps minimize the overpopulation of dogs and cats.
FYI, my cat is not declawed, and he doesn't kill hundreds of birds and mice. He doesn't go outside.
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