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I thought the grandmother said there IS a daddy in the picture . . .??? If he is out of work, why isn't HE taking care of the kids? Why does she need a car to get a child to school - we have buses here. ???[/quote]
Good questions Anifani. Abri, if it is not a two parent family - as the OP portrayed - then the situation is obviously different. She's a single mom and is gonna struggle. In the name of equality, we have done away with most of the protective laws and benefits for single moms - of course that was back when it was considered immoral to have children outside marriage and men were expected to do the honorable thing. At a bare minimum, he should be paying support -through the courts, not just when he feels like it. Even for divorced families who get child support, women and children frequently move down in income and standard of living and men move up. Sounds like, unless there is abuse, maybe they should try to reconcile.
(getting out soapbox and climbing up) Friends, our society is "reaping what we have sown". We have actively (or passively) normalized out of wedlock births, no-fault divorce, and co-habitating without commitment. We are selling the lie that birth control will allow people to have sex without consequences - when outside the laboratory, birth control only averages about 60% effectiveness rate. More children now are born outside marriage than inside the safety and (semi-)protection of a two-parent home. It takes the time, energy and effort of two dedicated people to raise children well, and still bring home an income. Sorry, but throwing around free BC pills and providing abortion has not liberated women, instead it has made them more available to men for sex with no consequences. It is typically the mom and kids who end up suffering.
This is a very common situation, as you've seen abri - but it is the direct result of our society's fear of having a common moral and ethical vision. This is what happens when everyone does what is right in their own eyes...wasnt there a warning about that somewhere?
Intersting factoid, the educated liberal elite are the ones promoting free birth control and abortion for the poor - yet they are choosing to marry before having kids.
Links for stats available if anyone is interested.
OP, I am not judging you or yours. I'm gonna assume that you taught and hoped for different. Society and culture are often much louder teachers than moms are. Please, please don't subsidize or support your daughter unless you see responsible, moral behavior. She'll figure it out faster if you don't try to make it too easy for her. It's tough to see your kids and grandkids struggle though. Blessings to you.
I believe the dad is in the picture, but not in the home. Raising 3 children and child support isnt gonna cover all the household expenses without her working.
I agree people should be more responsible and should not continue to have children without the means to support them. I personally do not believe in having children until marriage. If birth control is 60% effective that would prevent some pregnancies. At the end of the day, if people continue to have children, which they will. We the tax payers will be the one taking care of it. I think of how much giving birth to a child cost and how much medical payment for a child for 18 years costs. A women can receive birth control for a fraction of the cost. Why not try it out and see how it works?
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelbug71
I thought the grandmother said there IS a daddy in the picture . . .??? If he is out of work, why isn't HE taking care of the kids? Why does she need a car to get a child to school - we have buses here. ???
Good questions Anifani. Abri, if it is not a two parent family - as the OP portrayed - then the situation is obviously different. She's a single mom and is gonna struggle. In the name of equality, we have done away with most of the protective laws and benefits for single moms - of course that was back when it was considered immoral to have children outside marriage and men were expected to do the honorable thing. At a bare minimum, he should be paying support -through the courts, not just when he feels like it. Even for divorced families who get child support, women and children frequently move down in income and standard of living and men move up. Sounds like, unless there is abuse, maybe they should try to reconcile.
(getting out soapbox and climbing up) Friends, our society is "reaping what we have sown". We have actively (or passively) normalized out of wedlock births, no-fault divorce, and co-habitating without commitment. We are selling the lie that birth control will allow people to have sex without consequences - when outside the laboratory, birth control only averages about 60% effectiveness rate. More children now are born outside marriage than inside the safety and (semi-)protection of a two-parent home. It takes the time, energy and effort of two dedicated people to raise children well, and still bring home an income. Sorry, but throwing around free BC pills and providing abortion has not liberated women, instead it has made them more available to men for sex with no consequences. It is typically the mom and kids who end up suffering.
This is a very common situation, as you've seen abri - but it is the direct result of our society's fear of having a common moral and ethical vision. This is what happens when everyone does what is right in their own eyes...wasnt there a warning about that somewhere?
Intersting factoid, the educated liberal elite are the ones promoting free birth control and abortion for the poor - yet they are choosing to marry before having kids.
Links for stats available if anyone is interested.
OP, I am not judging you or yours. I'm gonna assume that you taught and hoped for different. Society and culture are often much louder teachers than moms are. Please, please don't subsidize or support your daughter unless you see responsible, moral behavior. She'll figure it out faster if you don't try to make it too easy for her. It's tough to see your kids and grandkids struggle though. Blessings to you.[/quote]
When someone reaches out to help and runs back to the group to gossip about the family its wrong IMO. This family hasn't been bashed and judged enough already?
What next? Help to do their taxes and post them online for us to see? Find out her real age and full name to see if she has a criminal history?
I have a hard time believing the info about the father is being provided to help with suggestions... it looks like its being used to wave more fingers and talk more trash about this persons situation.
Kudos to the mother/grandmother for trying to find work.... but man, some if these post are real funky and remind me of high school.
We are selling the lie that birth control will allow people to have sex without consequences - when outside the laboratory, birth control only averages about 60% effectiveness rate.
This is patently false. Why spread lies and exaggerations like this?
I know that's Wikipedia, but their chart was the easiest to understand of the many sites I visited, which all included close to the same numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelbug71
Sorry, but throwing around free BC pills and providing abortion has not liberated women, instead it has made them more available to men for sex with no consequences. It is typically the mom and kids who end up suffering.
You're right, women were much better off being tied to men because they got pregnant by them, and so many more women were *thrilled* with their back-alley abortions. Please, read up on women's history. Sex outside marriage and ending pregnancies are NOT new, they've been around as long as men & women have existed.
Im not trying to gossip, but people keep making suggestions and judging and dont fully understand the situation. But you're right, I should just focus on helping and not care what others think about this person who really is trying to do the best she can! I continue to stress she really is trying and I believe she wants to do everything she can do to get out of this situation and I am so proud to see anyone who wants to see someone work for something instead of continuing to get hand outs.
Like I said before, I volunteer with people who rather not work, not try to do anything, but live off the system. I can probably name 40 people off the top of my had now (not including their children) who do not work, go to school, or do anything else for that matter and continue to live off the government. This woman is trying and instead of bashing why not encourage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner
When someone reaches out to help and runs back to the group to gossip about the family its wrong IMO. This family hasn't been bashed and judged enough already?
What next? Help to do their taxes and post them online for us to see? Find out her real age and full name to see if she has a criminal history?
I have a hard time believing the info about the father is being provided to help with suggestions... it looks like its being used to wave more fingers and talk more trash about this persons situation.
Kudos to the mother/grandmother for trying to find work.... but man, some if these post are real funky and remind me of high school.
Sex outside marriage and ending pregnancies are NOT new, they've been around as long as men & women have existed.
Of course it is not new. No one said it was. The world often isn't binary: yes/no, black/white, on/off. This is a simplistic way of thinking. The previous posts are referring to the high occurrence rate of unwanted pregnancies. No one argued that unwanted pregnancies are new. The world makes little sense when trying to understand it through a binary lens. Start viewing things in terms of probability and occurrence rates and things make more sense. (As an added bonus, arguments become more rational.)
Do a Google search and take a look that the birth statistics in the U.S., you'll see what the previous posts are referring to.
Im not trying to gossip, but people keep making suggestions and judging and dont fully understand the situation. But you're right, I should just focus on helping and not care what others think about this person who really is trying to do the best she can! I continue to stress she really is trying and I believe she wants to do everything she can do to get out of this situation and I am so proud to see anyone who wants to see someone work for something instead of continuing to get hand outs.
Like I said before, I volunteer with people who rather not work, not try to do anything, but live off the system. I can probably name 40 people off the top of my had now (not including their children) who do not work, go to school, or do anything else for that matter and continue to live off the government. This woman is trying and instead of bashing why not encourage?
Sorry for the rant but I think a lot of people will use the info for negative reason's. Thanks for all the work you do.
It's frustrating because my sister was in a similar situation. She worked, went to college and fought her way out of poverty and now all of her kids are in college. While doing all of this people were still on the soap box judging her for actions she couldn't take back like she was sitting at home eating pop tarts and watching soaps all day.
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Sorry for the rant but I think a lot of people will use the info for negative reason's. Thanks for all the work you do.
