Chicago segregated (Cicero, Park Ridge, Norridge: rental, neighborhood, living)
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You are right but, every city is segregated. The one city that has done the best job at integration is probably NYC, but even there: Bronx = Hispanic, Manhattan = Mixed (Wall Street being White), Harlem Black/Mixed etc.etc.
Atlanta, Chicago, DC, San Diego etc. all have their neighborhoods where people cluster together, its not like the humans from Chicago are any different than the humans from Seattle. We all like to stay around our own kind.
That being said, I am looking at relocating to Chicago, and South Loop for me is the only option due to some of the reasons you state.
Location: Schaumburg, please don't hate me for it.
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Although, the OP makes his case in a poor fashion, the responses here are pretty much the usual when some Chicagoans are faced with the reality of the city's color lines.
1- talk about segregation in other cities.
2- mention Hyde Park.
3- deny, deny, deny.
Chicago is a terrific city, with many scars and open wounds. There is no shame in owning up to them in an honest fashion sometimes.
I don't disagree that we're a segregated city, but what do you expect in a "city of neighborhoods" with a city council who separates wards by race and had "council race wars" in the 1980s.
Yes, it's a segregated city, but your assessment is way off. Look at Garfield Ridge, Beverly/Morgan Park. If fact, the Beverly/Morgan Park area is one of the most equal, racially and economically. I'm a ****** and I live on the southside. Living in this city can not be beat, and the strongest lesson I've learned here is people like you, with your viewpoint, is the largest problem around issues like this.
Location: Schaumburg, please don't hate me for it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roma2585
I don't disagree that we're a segregated city, but what do you expect in a "city of neighborhoods" with a city council who separates wards by race and had "council race wars" in the 1980
Yes, the political gridlock of the eighties pulled our race problems out of the closet and put them right in front of our faces for all to see, everyday on TV and in the newsies. People were getting a full bore look at how we felt and acted towards each other.
Despite the tensions and hardships, that was still a step forward from the 50s-60's-70s- where many people confronted race issues with bats, bricks and slurs.
Chicago's race history is long and too often ugly, and you can't properly assess todays color lines without visiting how we got here.
Man, Chicago is the most segregated city I've ever seen. Only the South Loop has a good flow between Middle Class Blacks, Whites, and international. The rest is straight North: White, South: Black, Latino: SW n NW, Asians: trying desperately to fit in with Whites (as they do almost everywhere else in America), Indians: purely in the burbs.
Gold Coast, Lincoln Park, River North: TOTALLY White. With the only presence of people of color in those areas being raggedy Black winos n bums on Chicago Ave, and Division. Sheesh man that **** sucks.
To understand why Chicago is more segregated than other cities, one has to take a look at the history and current situation regarding immigration, cost of living, etc.
For the record, I don't believe that Chicago segregation necessarily translates to Chicagoans being more bigoted or less tolerant. That is definitely not the case. Residential segregation does NOT necessarily correspond to worse race relations.
As much as I have boosted LA over Chicago on city-data, the reality is is that city has had a couple explosive incidents (1992 riots, etc.) that Chicago has not had, perhaps because in Chicago people are likely to have less interaction with other groups period. Or take Atlanta or Houston, where you may have a smattering of old school, confederate flag waving native southerners around who may make remarks that you wouldn't hear in Chicago, even though those cities are mostly transplants that live in new neighborhoods, new buildings with no neighborhood history, therefore less segregation.
Asians: Compared to New York and California, Chicago/Chicagolands Asian population is relatively small, where with the exception of Chinatown (and bleeding into Bridgeport (as well as a couple other areas like the port of entry of less well off Indians all Devon Ave, or near the medical district where many work). But compared to California or New York, where they make up at least a slight majority in many, many neighborhoods. Outside of Chinatown, Devon Ave, or Argyle Street (Vietnamese) Asians make up a relatively small minority. And move to the area for high paying jobs which might mean they move to desirable areas which are mostly white.
Also, well off professional Asians (which most of the Indian immgrants are) generally appreciate American suburbia because they already are used to the crowded cities of their own country, and love the idea of a house in the suburbs, which they can afford.
You mentioned Boston. Bostons MAJOR attraction is all its universities. It is perhaps one of the most important universities cities in the country. Most of the Boston areas most desirable areas revolve around their universities. Bostons downtown relative to the cities prominence is less the attraction compared to Chicago. It is the universities and the communities that surround them. Therefore most of Bostons desirable areas are like multiple Hyde Park in many ways. Ivy league schools that attract people all over world.
Hispanics: On the east coast (especially NYC) most of the hispanics are Puerto Ricans and Dominicans which share much more heritage with African Americans, (many have physical African heritage) and they share the common Carribean-black African heritage mixed in. Plus NYC has many West Indians (Jamaicans as well). That would lead to more blending.
Chicago does have a Puerto Rican community obviously (and I think there is more effortless integration there) but Chicagos hispanic community is still overwhelmingly Mexican (over 80%). Chicagos black community is overwhelmingly southern in heritage (whereas NYC has the West Indian component - which might have something to do with the fact that hip hop developed there, as early hip hop has some Carribean influence). So, Chicagos black and hispanic population come from VERY different backgrounds.
Now, that of course is not to say that there is any real animosity between Chicagos black and hispanic communities. Indeed, you see many hispanics taking advantage of Maywoods (a struggling AA near west suburb) cheap cost of housing, as nearby Melrose Parks cheap areas are already filled with hispanic families.
The thing is in say LA, (which has had a significant, but yet significantly smaller AA population than Chicago) with a much larger Mexican population than Chicago, means that LAs Mexican community have long since moved into historically AA neighborhoods creating mixed communities there.
Whites: Like other industrial era cities (Detroit, Cleveland, Philadelphia, etc.), white ethnic groups that came from Europe to find unskilled jobs in factories, (they didn't speak english, generally came as rural peasants who needed the security, support and comfort zone of their own people. That led to European ethnic enclaves (Irish, German, Polish, Italian, etc.) Starting in the 50s post war boom, those ethnic europeans could afford cars, bigger homes in the suburbs, and generally had to a certain degree fear of blacks. However, many of them stayed in the city because of the opportunities of political jobs.
This is particularly true of Chicago, where the first mayor Daley, and some of his predecessors wanted to keep the ethnic enclaves stable because it was beneficial to reelections and consolidation of power.
As white working class people fought to keep their neighborhoods from changing, and when that didn't work they fled to greener pastures, the black population spread. To keep white working class ethnic enclaves from destablisizing, Mayor Daley 1st in the 50s and 60s constructed huge housing projects in existing black areas.
Meanwhile Mayor Daley and others, knew the world was changing, the Old Chicago would become obsolete, so they need to transform downtown Chicago into a mini-Manhattan, as the industrial districts of the west and south side would become osbolete and decline.
(this is why all of Chicagos supertall buildings are all built from the late 60s-onward starting with the Hancock) unlike NYC which has about 15 structures taller than Chicagos board of trade building that pre-date WWII.
To keep the professional class from all fleeing to the suburbs, Daley encouraged real estate speculators to construct beautiful residential high rises on the near north side all up along the north lakefront.
So, you have some generational ethnic whites plus recent E-European immigrants on the far NW and far SW, that are like that because of political connections/influence. And you have beautiful lakefront areas which attracted young people whose parents grew up in Chicago and then moved to the suburbs. Most of which of course are Caucasian.
I will also say that generally, as others mentioned, there is less segregation between hispanic and white, since most of them immigrated after the first Daley administration ended in the mid-70s. And Mexican culture has certain cultural aspects in common with some southern and eastern European cultures.
So, in conclusion, while the residents and revelers in Gold Coast, River North, Lincoln Park, etc. where "built and redeveloped, etc." specifically to attract the professional class that left for the suburbs or were thinking of moving to the suburbs to stay in the city. Most of course which were white. Although those people are not in any way racist, that social environment is more likely to attract . . . well more white people, even if everyone would be welcome. And many of those white people in addition to Chicagos suburbs come from midwestern universities with young professionals who come from surrounding states, whose cities did not have leaders that prepared their cities for a post industrial leaders and are therefore not perceived as being as nice, vibrant, or world class as Chicago. (Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis). Chicago obviously has more "competition" with cities on the coast. Thats just a reality.
This post was rather long-winded but maybe its sheds more light on the topic.
Location: Schaumburg, please don't hate me for it.
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Long-winded maybe, but also some very sound observations there. I think that the visceral, racial hatred that was so common in Chicago's white ethnic hoods past, is mostly an anachronism these days.
Whites who exhibit some contempt or disdain for blacks these days seem more driven by the crime factor than anything else. Rightly or wrongly, lots of white folks associate that more African-Americans in their neighborhood means more danger.
Yes, it is white. The far northwest side (Jefferson Park, areas immediately east of O'Hare and surrounding Norridge/Harwood Heights), Edison Park (Portage Park is becoming more mixed and is in that transition zone between European and hispanic) largely:
Older residents/empty nester who have owned their home for 30 years (predominantly of Polish and Italian ancestry), Caucasian city employees (mostly cops, firefighters, etc.) (mostly of Polish and Italian ancestry), and immigrants from Poland (and to a lesser extent other east European countries: Ukraine, Bulgaria, Serbia, etc.).
Race and ethnicity: Chicago | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4982044660/ - broken link)
The northside has noticeable amount of blacks mixed with asian and hispanic and whites.. Northwest has hispanics asians and whites mixed. many of the whites in those areas are of middle eastern descent. Which many people don't consider whites.
Race and ethnicity: Chicago | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4982044660/ - broken link)
The northside has noticeable amount of blacks mixed with asian and hispanic and whites.. Northwest has hispanics asians and whites mixed. many of the whites in those areas are of middle eastern descent. Which many people don't consider whites.
Yes, but I was responding to far northwest. Which to me includes what I would consider to be the neighborhoods north and west of the 90/94 split. Those areas I consider to be the far northwest side.
Now the far north or northeast side, yes, those neighborhood clusters (Uptown, Edgewater, Rogers Park, Albany Park) are very diverse and have residents of all creed, color, and background living side by side. (Vietnamese, Indian, middle eastern, Jewish, black, Mexican, Greeks, you name it, as well as a few aging Kentuckians in Uptown that moved there in the 60s).
I think however those areas are still somewhat unique in Chicago in terms of their ethnic mix.
Yes, but I was responding to far northwest. Which to me includes what I would consider to be the neighborhoods north and west of the 90/94 split. Those areas I consider to be the far northwest side.
Now the far north or northeast side, yes, those neighborhood clusters (Uptown, Edgewater, Rogers Park, Albany Park) are very diverse and have residents of all creed, color, and background living side by side. (Vietnamese, Indian, middle eastern, Jewish, black, Mexican, Greeks, you name it, as well as a few aging Kentuckians in Uptown that moved there in the 60s).
I think however those areas are still somewhat unique in Chicago in terms of their ethnic mix.
No they're not.
They've been like that for decades.
And I wasn't talking about far northwest.
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