Chicago's "brain drain" and culture of "mediocrity" (Lincoln: middle-class, credit)

[jman07]

What a stupid post. This is the first time I've ever heard about a Chicago brain drain. Its probably next to NYC with quality of jobs and diversity of its economy, but with half the cost of living. LA has the entertainment industry. Yahoo. How many people actually make it in that? San Fran has tech, but not a finance industry like Chicago, and double the cost of living. Just because a few people leave for NYC or San Fran doesn't make it a brain drain. I guess this author got what he wanted, people talking about his stupid article.

And for the record, a brain drain is when more smart educated people leave than come in. When the author actually puts forth some statistics that show this is true, I'll take him seriously.

[wideworld]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

It's not a brain drain, it's the opposite for the most part. People enter and leave every city, but Chicago is EASILY a huge brain gain from the rest of the Midwest, and certainly for a Midwestern city it's right at the top for bringing in people from the coasts.

It loses people to the coasts as well, but the article seems to be taking something and then focusing on just one aspect only to try and push their point.

This is what it has going for it. Big enough to venture to and make something of yourself, yet close enough to "home" for other Midwesterners.

As for me, my brain left to obtain Bachelor and Master's degrees out of state, returned to experience a year plus of unemployment in Chicago, and promptly left again for greener pastures. And, trust me, they're greener. I can actually see them, unlike in Antarcticago.

This article has been circling the web for about a week now. Illinois ranks an impressive (ha ha) #2. (Top states people are fleeing)

[Stillers]

I have to agree with mjtinmemphis on this debate here. Blacks are so stigmatized in this city due to what's going on in the South side. From what I've noticed in this city, most non-Blacks would prefer two CTA systems, one for north of the loop and one for south of the loop. I understand that one of the responders is Asian, and I'm sure you get stereotyped often. It's human nature. But your stereotypes are far less demeaning than ours.

And the thing is, this city isn't too shy about wanting to keep the segregation exactly where it is. Non-blacks are legitimately scared of black people here. It's amazing, seeing as how huge this city is, and how many different cultures are represented here. Again, the epidemic that is going on in the South Side plays a huge part in that. But with that preconceived notion comes, not really a glass ceiling, but more of a padlocked door. If you are willing to conform to being a "safe" Black, then that padlock will be opened for you and your ceiling will be as high as everyone else's. But if you are not willing to look and act how people want you to look and act, then good luck being differentiated.

The city sometimes seems like it would completely fine if all of the Blacks were shipped out or contained to the south side. And that sentiment seems to be expressed rather extrinsically, which can cause a migration of truly talented Black people.

But hey, I've only been here for 6 months. So what do I know?

[marothisu]

The city used to be more segregated. It's a shame, but there are areas that are still pretty inegrated in the city, even on the south side (such as Ashburn, Hyde Park, etc). Unfortunately there's a huge swath on the south side that is not and still primarily homogenous. The reason why some of these south side neighborhoods became so high in black % does have to do with racism a little bit (i.e. White Flight) and also other shady dealings around that (i.e. blockbusters). However, the reason why many don't move into some other neighborhoods there is because of safety concerns and amenities. Amenities are usually not as big of a concern as there are restaurants and such, but some areas are definite food deserts. However, some communities are seeing a reversal of fortunes as things get safer. Douglas/Bronzeville is now safer than it used to be and while it's still predominantly black, it's now about 10% white and almost 13% Asian.

The problem with some of the poorer communities is investment and the stereotype of high crime. When the high crime goes, people need a reason to live there. I am currently in love with the work that Theaster Gates is doing in Greater Grand Crossing/South Shore. To me, that guy is just amazing and what's happening there is so great.

[TheSunshineKid]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

One of the statements in the comment section brought up race. Any time any subject is posted, people will post response based on their experience. In this city, segregation impacts the Black community more so than Asians and other minority groups. I can't deny your experience and how it affects the way you interact with the city and wouldn't expect the reverse from you.

The subject is brain drain in Chicago. One of the largest group leaving the city are Black Americans. As one in that demographic, why wouldn't I mention the segregation being a major turn off. If you want to debate that's on you. Imo, you can't debate another person's experience.

Here's a question: Do you know the reasons why Black Americans are leaving? Racism? Low income? Want new surroundings? Trying to get away from gangland? New job somewhere else? Myriads of reasons, probably.

You would mention it because you think "Integration = good" while "Segregation = bad." You see that blacks are leaving the city and think "Systematic racism!" The common myth of segregation is "Well, it must be due to some backward thinking. Something must've happened in the system that the Chicago black community is struggling ... it MUST be the system. It has to be. And by golly, it most likely is due to racism." For a professional worker you makes leaps of logic that I find questionable. I don't care if you're offended because it needs to be said.

You pull the race card, then you better back it up with substantial evidence. No more of this "MLK said it was the most racist city he's ever been to," talk or "There aren't enough black/white people in said neighborhood." That was about 50s years ago. Its expiration date has long past. Lyndon B. Johnson's Howard U. speech won't suffice, either. If I could earn a nickel every time someone brought up MLK's experience I would be half way done saving up for my motorcycle. If you cry racism I want proof of it. If you want to know why certain North Side hoods are dominately white, you go up to the people and you ask them why - you knock on their doors and ask. The same goes for the SS. None of this postulating that is ever so popular. None of this referring to academic journal because I know they'll spout the narrative of racism and 'systematic racism.' Been there, done that. Next story. I've played that story myself and I'm through with it.

There are many things that have been great with my experience with Chicago. Don't take it as I have the angry black man syndrome just because I tell why I see Chicago not being the best it could be. When I feel the race card is being played, there is nothing wrong with me telling my experience. Imo, you should not be offended by my posts.

I asked a couple of questions in my previous post. You don't have to answer them, but if you want, feel free. No peer pressure.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by wideworld

This is what it has going for it. Big enough to venture to and make something of yourself, yet close enough to "home" for other Midwesterners.

As for me, my brain left to obtain Bachelor and Master's degrees out of state, returned to experience a year plus of unemployment in Chicago, and promptly left again for greener pastures. And, trust me, they're greener. I can actually see them, unlike in Antarcticago.

This article has been circling the web for about a week now. Illinois ranks an impressive (ha ha) #2. (Top states people are fleeing)

The article is by a moving company. Their statistics are taken from their own booking data - the article explicitly says that the study "tracks the states the company’s customers move to and from." So there's bias immediately based on their pricing, which will be set to help balance inflow and outflow of equipment around the nation, which will cause bias in the data depending on what sort of competition they have in each region. It's also biased based on how far people are likely to move - i.e. whether they're competing against UHaul and people who own SUVs who move themselves, or other big commercial movers.

Basically, what you're "citing" is a press release designed to get people talking about moving and about United Van Lines. It's not a scientific survey, nor is it rigorous or balanced.

And that's not even touching on the fact that places with large foreign immigrant populations nearly always lose population in "in-migration" surveys because foreign immigrants land in a metro area, start families and then often move elsewhere because of what they've learned about the U.S. during their initial years. That's why New Jersey and New York also have very high out-migration, because of the foreign immigrant influence. Chicago is not quite the same draw as New York when it comes to international numbers, but it's still a significant draw for foreign immigrants and that influences the numbers.

[It'sAutomatic]

His only proof for brain drain is anecdotes from other people and his own personal experience with "lethargic HR departments".... There are several industries where people absolutely cannot "make it" in Chicago, and he briefly acknowledges this as if it's some fault of the city that it can fix (note: it probably can't), but other than that, I think he's full of it.



From him: "Personally, I’d like to live in a city again where ... if you’re good, you’re asked to stay, not given a going-away party."

As if a firm in a coastal city is going to kiss your ass to keep you in a job for which they could get 1000 applications in a week. I don't buy it. Even still, maybe he actually sucks at his job and that's why HR departments leave him feeling butt-hurt.

[mattywo85]

Isn't people coming and going a problem to some extent in every city? You can't expect every citizen to stay in one city until they die.

Unfortunately Chicago is plagued with corruption and debt. If anything will be its down fall it will be that.

In the mean time, Chicago is still a very important city within the US and to completely fall behind and become unimportant is not likely. It may lose a step here and there but can easily regain it.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by Stillers

.

But hey, I've only been here for 6 months. So what do I know?

6 months? I didn't catch on to it until my 3rd year.

I guess I was looking at everything through my rose colored glasses. I was just happy to be in the big city.

[sydlee]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

Ok sunshinekid,

I'm responding to this with the best intentions and assuming the same from you.

One of the statements in the comment section brought up race. Any time any subject is posted, people will post response based on their experience. In this city, segregation impacts the Black community more so than Asians and other minority groups. I can't deny your experience and how it affects the way you interact with the city and wouldn't expect the reverse from you.

The subject is brain drain in Chicago. One of the largest group leaving the city are Black Americans. As one in that demographic, why wouldn't I mention the segregation being a major turn off. If you want to debate that's on you. Imo, you can't debate another person's experience.

There are many things that have been great with my experience with Chicago. Don't take it as I have the angry black man syndrome just because I tell why I see Chicago not being the best it could be. When I feel the race card is being played, there is nothing wrong with me telling my experience. Imo, you should not be offended by my posts.

Not from Chicago and not Black, but as a person of color, this speaks to me. It's good, though sometimes difficult, to bring up such a nuanced topic about things not everyone may be able to see due to different individual experiences.