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Location: in the sun with all shadows behind me, in a small town with no "culture" to malign me
80 posts, read 94,007 times
Reputation: 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktalon1
You bring up some very valid and excellent points. It's just frustrating for someone who grew up in Chicago (as opposed to whites and their transplanted counterparts on this forum) who go on and on about how wonderful Chicago is out of one side of their mouths, yet out of the other side of their mouths they consistently perpetuate the myth that any area of Chicago that has a majority black population as dangerous and horrible. Clearly, reiterating my point.
Otherwise, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
These are the bleeding hearts. Yes, they make up most of Chicagoland unfortunately. Think about it. How many times, even on these boards, do you hear someone talk about "sketchy neighborhoods" and boudaries of "bad neighborhoods" and its almost always where the "black folk" live. Sometimes where the hispanics live. Diversity is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Most people see Chicago as hypersegregated, and they think it's a good thing, secretly.
Today, however, I'm rethinking that decision. I'm taking a look at how my lifestyle has panned out and asking myself just how much I do in Chicago that I couldn't do in a number of so-called "lesser" cities -- all while living more cheaply and in somewhat less crowded environs.
For example, I live in the Lakeview area and love everything that's here... but sometimes I think I could be just as happy in, say, Minneapolis' Uptown area, or Denver's Capitol Hill, or Portland's Belmont-Hawthorne district, or similar areas in other smaller big cities. Sure, Chicago has more of everything, but do I really need all that? Does it justify -- for me -- the higher cost of living here? Plus, as I get older, I find the pace of the city gets to me more and more, and the streets are too crowded and the people too reckless, and it's wearing me out. I'm thinking perhaps other cities might offer "enough" urban amenities to keep me stimulated while balancing that with somewhat lower population densities and less "craziness" so that I don't feel overstimulated quite so often.
(One criterion I do have, however, is that I don't want to have to resort to depending on a car to get around, which means I need a place with at least decent public transit and not too sprawling. Modern sunbelt cities are definitely out. Not my thing.)
Sometimes I even think about moving back to my native Cleveland... and I know what jesse means about cheaper housing in Houston, because in the Cleveland area you can buy a lakefront highrise condo in a great area for as little as $30K, or sometimes even less... but when I do go back home for a visit, I spend some time looking around and I say, "God, I could never live here again." So obviously when I look back at my hometown in my mind, I let my nostalgia cause me to romanticize the place too much, and when I take another look at the reality, it doesn't quite fit my romanticized notions.
Which leads me to another point: I try to avoid the "grass is always greener" mentality. After all, when I first moved to Chicago, I thought the place was "Mecca"... but somewhere along the way I misplaced my rose-colored glasses and started seeing all this city's faults and warts. So, too, will it eventually be with any other place I decide to move to. I'm well aware that there is no such place as Utopia... not on this planet, anyway.
So for now I'm staying put... and will do so for the next couple of years at least. Then I'll decide whether to stay or to move on. In the meantime, I'm not going to wish my life away, as my mom used to put it.
Another option I'm considering is to stay in the Chicago area, but move more to the fringes, or even to an inner-ring suburb... for example, I'm very drawn to Oak Park and am thinking that might be a nice place to settle as I get older. It's still walkable and has a decent amount of urban "stuff" (shops, restaurants) although not so much nightlife (which I've mostly lost interest in, anyway), and is somewhat quieter and slower-paced and friendlier than the north lakefront neighborhoods. And it's still a short train ride from downtown Chicago. So that's a possibility.
Interesting take. As someone who is familiar with Cleveland I would have to say that the biggest benefit to being in Chicago is access to a wide variety of urban neighborhoods and the ability to live a truly urban lifestyle. If I was going to move to the Chicago suburbs or even a neighborhood further out from downtown or the lakefront, I would probably rather live in Cleveland. Basically at that point you are regulated to commuting into the city to enjoy its amenities, which is something that is easier done in Cleveland. I think Cleveland has plenty of amenities; however, in many cases those amenities are not surrounded by greatest residential neighborhoods. Personally I really don't see the benefit to living in Oak Park or Evanston compared to say Cleveland Heights or Lakewood. Factor in the cost of living and traffic and this becomes a no brainer for me.
As far as the other cities you bring up, I would think they would be just as expensive except for Minneapolis. Are Portland and Denver really that much cheaper than Chicago? Although, living in those cities would probably be much more laid back and less stressfull.
Sorry, but I just don't see it. Furthermore, I'm afraid that "two or more people" do not get to dictate what gets posted on this board and what doesn't.
Count me as one of those people sick of the same thing PR is. I'm tired of these multiple accounts. And, in fact, we do get to determine what gets posted on this board. All it takes is a complaint to a moderator, which in this case is more than warranted.
Quote:
How so? Please show me one example of where I've been downright ugly with another poster.
Pretentiousness is a form of ugly. U-G-L-Y you ain't got no alibi.
I returned to Chicago for law school, years ago, but I left with a desire to see more of the world. As someone with a very serious case of seasonal affective disorder-- and chronic bronchitis-- it was like drowning. The insane laws and regulations were adding up, too, resulting in corruption that infuriated me but I was otherwise unable to do anything about.
It's one thing to be shortsighted, but to see the city I loved being dismantled piece by piece-- and sometimes, imploded-- was a sickening experience. Shortsightedness, greed, corruption, BS racial tensions caused by anti-gentrification morons who still scream "white flight!" whenever someone takes a crime-ridden hellhole and tries to turn it around... These things and more led me to accept a post elsewhere.
As a lawyer, I was very intimately aware of these problems. Possibly more so than anyone not directly involved in politics. So it was a concentrated dose of intolerable corruption that found me moving.
I remember when people moved here in search of jobs. Well, with one of the highest unemployment rates in the country, I don't think that is the case anymore.
Property taxes in the city used to be low, they are no longer.
Quality of schools have plummeted in the last 20 years. Magnet schools are good, but limited room.
Crime has soared. Middle class all but non-existent. Traffic is paralyzing.
This is the reality. Why do people stay? Having family in the area is a big reason. Being comfortable with what you know is another. If you have a city job, you are locked in. If you are in any of the trade unions, you might have to stay because you lose what you built up and have to start all over again.
And then, there are those who just like the energy of a big, big city. Or they like to blend into the woodwork.
I would love to try small town life away from the metropolitan area, but my husband has to stay because of his job. At least that is his excuse. But I did move out to suburban life after 38 years of city living.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,317,864 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine
Count me as one of those people sick of the same thing PR is. I'm tired of these multiple accounts. And, in fact, we do get to determine what gets posted on this board. All it takes is a complaint to a moderator, which in this case is more than warranted.
No. Wrong. According to this site, the post reporting feature is "ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts." It's a misuse of the feature to report posters simply for saying things you don't like. It's an attempt to censor others.
BTW, only the site's administrators know for sure whether "multiple accounts" are involved... they're the only ones who can trace IP addresses here... and they're not talking. I, for one, would never presume to accuse someone of posting under multiple usernames when there's no way I can know absolutely. It's only speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine
Pretentiousness is a form of ugly. U-G-L-Y you ain't got no alibi.
Pretentiousness? What pretentiousness? I'm afraid I'm not following.
No. Wrong. According to this site, the post reporting feature is "ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts." It's a misuse of the feature to report posters simply for saying things you don't like. It's an attempt to censor others...
"problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude)" can certainly encompass people that "troll." When a poster goes out of his or her way to mention how badly a city or area sucks, (whether it has any basis in fact or not) or put down inhabitants of a city or area in just about every post, no matter what forum they post in, that is an example of harassment. When someone makes some stupid thread (especially more than once) stating something to the effect of "I think your city sucks,people suck,restaurants suck,etc", that is provoking a fight, which would fall under all three categories: harassment, fighting, or rude.
Most of the real problem posters have exhibited the above behavior. We have had a few real gems in here that will post how much they think Chicago sucks in forums from Texas to Timbuktu. I am not even going to mention the names of some of the losers that have been in and out of this forum the last two years. Anyone that reads or posts in this forum regularly can attest to the screen names of these posters.
Nobody is saying that if you do not like an area and post once or twice about it you should be censored or banned. But there are people that go way above and beyond that.
There are people that will post in forums such as California,New York and others, and somehow find a way to mention how much they think Chicago sucks. (Of course there are people that do this in regards to other cities as well.) Then they come in the Chicago forum (or whatever appropriate thread) and start fights. If that is not a definition of problematic-what in the world is?
Last edited by Avengerfire; 11-22-2009 at 05:30 PM..
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,317,864 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktalon1
As a native Chicagoan, I think the above is a very kind analogy of what is holding it back. How about the decades long blatant racism, horrible and perpetually broke schools and transportation systems, political corruption, illegal alien hordes, high taxes and crime rates?
Chicago's reputation for being a great place to live has always been more fiction than reality.
Well, Chicago is a great place to live -- for some. For others, not so much.
If you're young and single and childless and well-educated, and have a well-paying job that allows you to live and move about in the city's yuppie playgrounds and comfortably plunk down $400K for a condo and all that, Chicago can be a wonderful place to call home... at least for a while.
But if you're working class and struggling to raise a family, and all you can afford is one of Chicago's stagnant or declining neighborhoods and you're dealing with decay and increased crime and gang violence and bad schools and all that, even as you watch your property taxes being jacked up sky-high, Chicago might not seem so livable to you, and getting worse. And it hurts even more if you've lived here all your life and can remember a time when it just wasn't like that.
Say you'd never been to Chicago and the only impressions you have of the place are based on what you've read on the internet. Now, if all you've read are some of the threads here on City-Data and on similar websites like SkyscraperCity, SkyscraperPage, etc., you might come away with the impression that Chicago is the Jewel of the Western Hemisphere.
But then go read a Tribune article online about something or other Daley or City Council is doing, and then read all the posted comments from people complaining about everything, and you could be forgiven for thinking that Chicago has become Hell on Earth.
So what's up with that? It's like you're reading about two different cities.
And in a very real sense, you are. And which city you perceive has a lot to do with your personal situation and station in life, if you are a Chicagoan.
Well, Chicago is a great place to live -- for some. For others, not so much...
So what? That is the case with any city or town in the United States.
I certainly do not make Chicago out to be the Emerald City and neither do most others that post in this forum.
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