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God's love will not prevent Him from complying with the demands of His righteousness in sending those who reject His gift of salvation to the eternal lake of fire. You keep talking about love, but you understand nothing about God's essence. He will do as He has said He will do in passages such as Revelation 20:10-15 and Matthew 25:41,46. Your beliefs are not grounded in reality.
Torture is not righteous, and its certainly not justice, its ultimate violence and sadism ...Moderator cut: attack
No matter, you will come into the fold eventually, just like everyone else ...
Peace ...
Last edited by Miss Blue; 08-21-2010 at 07:37 AM..
Reason: that was a personal attack
Torture is not righteous, its not certainly not justice, its ultimate violence and sadism, but you cant understand that because you are a violent and greedy man who heart is made of stone and who seeks to take heaven by force.
No matter, you will come into the fold eventually, just like everyone else ...
Peace ...
Amen. There is enough torture in this world and in this lifetime to last an eternity.
Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22:1-2
God chooses everyone who answers the call of the Gospel message in the affirmative. God provides the Gospel message which God the Holy Spirit makes perspicacious to the spiritually dead unbeliever. After having understood the issue, the responsibility falls to the hearer of the Gospel to make a volitional choice regarding Christ. Romans 10:11-18
You continue to make irrational statements and simply will not believe the Scriptures which you don't like. This is the delusion of the universalist.
No further communication with you is of any use as you simply reject the truth and cling to the unscriptural teachings of universalism.
I refer interested readers back to posts #325 and 332.
Saying that Christ is completely victorious over Satan and his works is not irrational, it is true and trustworthy. though you cannot receive it because you believe Satan is victorious over Christ throughout most of creation. I reject only your lie that evil exists forever and that sin has a greater victory that Christs work on the cross.
May God give you a heart of flesh to receive the truth of his abundant compassion and limitless mercy ...
Amen. There is enough torture in this world and in this lifetime to last an eternity.
Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22:1-2
What you've said Mike555 is pretty much the same thing as someone saying "Well, you keep talking about trees, but you understand nothing about the forest's essence".
No, it is not. You see only God's love. And God certainly is love. But you fail to recognize that the demands of God's righteousness must be met. God cannot and will not compromise His righteousness because of His love. The same written word of God which speaks of God's love speaks also of His holiness. In fact, the Bible speaks more of God's holiness than it does of His love.
God's love did not make salvation possible. It only motivated God to provide salvation. What made salvation possible was God's justice. It was the judicial imputation of man's personal sins to Christ on the Cross which made salvation available to those who place their faith in Christ for salvation. It is only when a person makes a volitional choice to place His faith in Christ, that God imputes HIS righteousness to the one who has believed in Christ. It is only because of that imputed righteousness which allows God to declare the believer to be justified, along with the imputation of God's very own eternal life to that believer, that he can spend eternity in the presence of God. The refusal on the part of a person to receive the gift of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ leaves that person maladjusted to the justice of God, and means that God's justice must act against that person in eternal condemnation. If a man refuses to believe in Christ for salvation, then he has only his own relative human righteousness to stand on. Human righteousness is incompatable with God's perfect absolute righteousness and God cannot have an eternal relationship with any creature that has less than his own perfection.
The person who rejects Christ as Savior stands on his own righteousness at the Great White Throne judgment and on that basis is condemned to the lake of fire as recorded in Revelation 20:11-15.
If God violated His own perfect standards then He would not be God. God's justice guards the rest of His attributes and God will not and cannot set aside His justice to save man on the basis of love.
God's love could not guarantee that Adam would not lose His relationship with God through disobedience. And when Adam did disobey God and lose his relationship, God's love could not restore that relationship. But God's justice could and did make Adam's salvation possible. When the Lord evangelized Adam and Eve after they fell, they believed the promise of the future coming Messiah and were saved. And in like manner, God's justice guarantees that man canot lose his salvation.
Man's salvation is contengent upon believing in Jesus Christ for salvation. A refusal to believe in Christ for salvation means that God must, He has no choice, leave the unbeliever in his fallen state and must send that person eternally away from his presence. That means spending eternity in the place described in the word of God as the lake of fire.
You believe the word of God when it talks about His love. How is it then that you will not believe the very same word of God when it talks about the eternal condemnation of those who will not avail themselves of God's offer of salvation so that they can avoid having to spend eternity in the lake of fire?
Last edited by Michael Way; 08-21-2010 at 08:13 AM..
God's love could not guarantee that Adam would not lose His relationship with God through disobedience. And when Adam did disobey God and lose his relationship, God's love could not restore that relationship.
It is no wonder you remain confused, Mike! You don't even understand that God ordained Adam's disobedience? If you don't even understand that, then you need to start from scratch. I mean seriously - do yourself a favor and do some reading outside of your fundamentalist circle/outside your box that you keep God in and ask God to open your eyes to learn some things you have not understood. I do not say this to be demeaning, but it is just the condition you are in - the condition of one who Jesus said would cover land and sea to make one convert and in so doing make him two-fold a child of hell. Do you understand what Jesus meant by that? Or when Jesus said, "If the light that is in you is darkness - how great is that darkness?" Think, Mike! Come step outside of your theological prison! Its safe to do so.
It is no wonder you remain confused, Mike! You don't even understand that God ordained Adam's disobedience? If you don't even understand that, then you need to start from scratch. I mean seriously - do yourself a favor and do some reading outside of your fundamentalist circle/outside your box that you keep God in and ask God to open your eyes to learn some things you have not understood. I do not say this to be demeaning, but it is just the condition you are in - the condition of one who Jesus said would cover land and sea to make one convert and in so doing make him two-fold a child of hell. Do you understand what Jesus meant by that? Or when Jesus said, "If the light that is in you is darkness - how great is that darkness?" Think, Mike! Come step outside of your theological prison! Its safe to do so.
To the contrary. God gave man volition. And the tree that God commanded Adam not to eat of was a volitional test for him. In eternity past God knew that Adam would fail the volitional test and disobey God. God therefore allowed Adam's decision to take place. He didn't force Adam to make the decision.
In eternity past in the counsel of divine decrees, God in His omnisciece knew every thought, every decision, and every action that every person would ever make. And He knew the outworking, the results, the consequences of every single decision that would be made. And He decreed that those decision would certainly take place. God's decrees aren't responsible for causing any decision of any person to be made. God's decree simply guarantees the operation of man's volition. God knew what man would decide and made it possible for the decision to take place. See the following threads. The first one is mine. The second belongs to someone else.
Some people just won't believe until they are knee deep in the magma.
exactly, and when there knee deep in magma they will then beleive.
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