Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You did not answer my question, how did you infer from anything that i wrote that Christ is not both Jesus Christ and the lamb of god?
I am not infering. It is you who is. You haven't got a clue as to what allegory, symbol, type, shadow and reality is. You are so lost in your UR babble it isn't even real anymore. You are in dream land. Gehenna is the symbol for the lake of fire. A real place for the lost...for the wicked.
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
So do you see it saying the Lake of Fire is the second death, but don't worry, you will be saved from it? LOL Get real.
The smoke of their torment is for ever and ever. All we see is smoke.
To the contrary. I have indeed shown the verse. Hebrews 9:27. And as I stated, universalists reject the verse precisely because it does make it clear that after death it is too late to receive Christ as Savior.
Hebrews 9:27
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment
The above scripture says absolutely nothing about eternal damnation or about people being lost forever if they do not believe before they die.
How many times was Israel judged by God and then afterward restored? Or King David? the idea that one cannot be saved after they are judged is to be found no where in the scriptures. You are adding to scripture as is your common practice, just like Sciotamicks. And neither of you agree on anything other than ET, which is really funny because you both contradict each other in your defense of ET, showing that one of you is certainly wrong in your argument, if not both.
Quote:
First of all, Hades is a temporary prison for those who have died as unbelievers. As I have already said, there will come a time (at the end of the Millennium) when all unbelievers will be resurrected, their bodies will be resurrected from the grave or wherever the atoms of the body have been scattered to, and the souls will come out of Hades to reside in the resurrected body. They will then stand before Christ at the Great White Throne judgment where they will receive final sentencing and will then, body and soul go into the eternal lake of fire (Rev 20:11-15).
Hades is the grave, no where is scriptures is it said to be a prison, and only in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man does it appear to be one. But Jesus was speaking to the pharisees when he spoke the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, and the reason why Jesus spoke in parables was so that those who were listening would not be able to understand what he was saying, he was speaking in symbo0lic code, which you are unable to understand just like the pharisees were unable to understand.
Quote:
Luke 16:19-31, is a fictionalized story which illustrates a very real situation. Jesus plainly used this story to teach that after death the unrighteous will be eternally separated from God, that they will remember their rejection of the Gospel, that they will be in torment, and that their condition cannot be remedied. At the time that Jesus used this story as a teaching aid to illustrate the fact that those who die have a place to which they go, both the believer and unbeliever went to Hades. The believer went to the 'Paradise' side of Hades, while the unbeliever went to the 'torments' side of Hades. And as Jesus said, Abraham at the time was in the Paradise side of Hades. And as stated in the story, If those who are alive will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.
Wrong ... Again to understand Symbolism used by Christ in the parable of the rich man please go here ...
If one will not believe the gospel while he is alive, neither will he be persuaded after death.
If the Parable of the rich man and Lazarus were not a parable, your above statement would still be false, as the rich man was repenting while he was in Hades, he was persuaded that he had lived wrong and he wanted to warn his brothers. That is the purpose of judgment, to persuade us of our wrongdoing and bring us to a knowledge of the truth. Some people are just stubborn and require more judgment than others.
Quote:
As Revelation 20:7-9 makes clear, there will be multitudes of unbelievers in the Millennium. The resurrected Jesus Christ in Glory will be present on the earth, ruling from the throne of David, and yet the numbers of people who reject Christ will be as the sand of the seashore. They will be in the presence of the Son of God and they will still reject Him .
the reason why people will reject Christ at that time is because God will loose Satan from the pit, so that he can deceive them? Why would God let Satan deceive people so that they should reject him? Think about it for a little while ...
But after that God will create a new heavens and a new earth, and all will be made one together in Christ and will confess he is lord, and god will be all in all ...
Quote:
For the reality of Sheol/Hades, Tartarus, and Gehenna, interested readers may refer to this thread of mine...
I am not infering. It is you who is. You haven't got a clue as to what allegory, symbol, type, shadow and reality is. You are so lost in your UR babble it isn't even real anymore. You are in dream land. Gehenna is the symbol for the lake of fire. A real place for the lost...for the wicked.
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
So do you see it saying the Lake of Fire is the second death, but don't worry, you will be saved from it? LOL Get real.
The smoke of their torment is for ever and ever. All we see is smoke.
That's what i thought, doge the question as usual Sciotamicks, whatever is clever right?
They wont be saved from the lake of fire, they will be purified by the lake of fire. Yes it is the second death, the death of the carnal and sinful nature. Just as we believers are salted with fire in this life for the purpose of purification, so must the wicked and unbelievers undergo baptism in the lake of fire to be purified before they will become one with God.
Things in heaven(fallen angels),things in earth(those who are living at any given time), things under the earth(those who have died) ...
Rev 5:13
and every creature that is in the heaven, and in the earth, and under the earth, and the things that are upon the sea, and the all things in them, heard I saying, 'To Him who is sitting upon the throne, and to the Lamb, is the blessing, and the honour, and the glory, and the might -- to the ages of the ages!'
Again we see that mike contradicts the scriptures, as we see here things under the earth praising God and worshiping him and giving him all the honor and glory ...
Those who are under the earth are acknowledging the Lordship of Christ. They are giving the honor that is rightfully due to Christ. They are doing so as the defeated enemy of Christ.
Quote:
Psalms 22:27 says that all the earth will turn and worship the lord, Yet mike says that this refers to the millennial reign and that even then all people will not turn and worship God. Who will you believe mike or the scriptures?
And there is no mention of the millennium in this chapter at all ...
The Scriptures say that in the Millennium the earth wil be full of the knowledge of the Lord. The Scriptures also say in Revelation 20:7-9 that there wiil be many who will rebel against Christ. These will be unbelievers.
No stipulation is made concerning those who are saved in Isa 26:10 ... This is a general prophecy concerning the resurrection of the dead. More adding to the scriptures ...
Daniel speaks of owlam shame ... This refers to the shame these people will feel in the presence of the lamb knowing they had rejected them in their lives. It has nothing to do with Eternal Torment. And it says nothing about them suffering or being tortured.
There are two resurrections, the resurrection of those who had aionios life while living, and those who did not have aionios life, the resurrection of those who lived a life of shame. Those who are resurrected in the second resurrection will hold themselves in contempt for the life they lived. Thy will burn with shame and contempt when they are in the presence of the lamb.
Those who are lost become Gods people when he finds them, that is why Christ said that he came to seek and to save the lost. Again Mike is saying either Christ was a liar or a failure, that he will not or cannot find and save the lost.
If you are referring to Isa 26:19 and not 26:l10 as you stated above, the resurrection is of those who are saved because they are told to shout for joy. The resurrection of Old Testament saints and Tribulational martyrs takes place at the coming of the Lord at the end of the Tribulation. This is in contrast with the resurrection of the church which takes place some seven years earlier (pre-tribulation).
Additionally, there is a second meaning to Isa 26:19. Not only does the passage speak of the resurrection of the Old Testament Saints and Tribulational martyrs, but the restoration of Israel is here spoken of in terms of a resurrection. Compare with Ezekiel 37:1-11.
The Scriptures are clear. Daniel 12:2 speaks of the resurrection to eternal life in contrast to those who will be resurrected to disgrace and everlasting shame. Those who are resurrected to everlasting shame are resurrected in the second resurrection which takes place at the end of the Millennium and is the resurrection of all unbelievers of human history.
No I have not said that Christ is a liar or a failure. Jesus did precisely what He came to do. He accomplished the work of salvation on the Cross so that whosoever will believe in Him can have eternal life.
Quote:
Again no mention of any millennium, and yes Israel is here being referred to, the nation of Israel, who though they are enemies of the gospel, will never the less be saved.
Again, it is an easy enough matter to simply do a little reseach on it and show that it does hav reference to the Millennium.
Quote:
Those who are earth are distinguished from those who are under the earth, those who are on earth are those living, those under the earth are those who have died. Christ came to save the lost, again mike is saying either Christ is a liar or a failure.
If you need to believe the traditions of man because you cannot understand the scriptures for yourself, by the guidance of the holy spirit and much study, you will be led astray, for the traditions of man make the word of God to no avail. Just like mike who teaches that Christ is a liar and a failure ... And who teaches that evil will have a greater victory over creation than Good, and that sin and death and the works of Satan will have greater victory over creation than Christs work on the cross, and who teaches that the power of the devil to deceive is greater than the power of God to save.
Selah ...
Those who are under the earth have certainly died. But unbelieving humanity is in view. All of creation wil make the acknowledgement that Christ is Lord. That includes both unbelievers and fallen angels, both of whom are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire as is directly and clearly declared in Scripture.
The traditions of men did not originate the word of God. The traditions of men did not put into Jesus' mouth the words He said concerning His judgment of those who rejected Him as Savior.
The majority of the human race is going to spend eternity in the lake of fire because they have rejected Christ. And this does not make Jesus a failure. It was never His intention to save anyone who refuses to place their faith in Him.
That's what i thought, doge the question as usual Sciotamicks, whatever is clever right?
They wont be saved from the lake of fire, they will be purified by the lake of fire.
One of us is certainly deluded ...
You mean the sons of Levi...again...context Ironmaw......the house of Israel...Levi line....read the darn whole chapter next time...all the way to the end of Malachi...priestly line...purified as silver and gold.....hence Paul, Peter, James, John etc....under Christ...the High Priest.
He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness, and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to the Lord, as in days gone by, as in former years.
Let's take it to the end....shall we?
Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire," says the Lord Almighty. "Not a root or a branch will be left to them.
Set the stage for the 1st century, not some fairy tale post resurrection judgement as you propose with your UR babble:
See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse.
Want to go further....do you have a towel for your face?
Matt 4:6He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse.
Luke 1:17And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous-to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
You have been corrected once again. Keep 'em coming Ironmaw.
I will be here all day.
I am not infering. It is you who is. You haven't got a clue as to what allegory, symbol, type, shadow and reality is. You are so lost in your UR babble it isn't even real anymore. You are in dream land. Gehenna is the symbol for the lake of fire. A real place for the lost...for the wicked.
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
So do you see it saying the Lake of Fire is the second death, but don't worry, you will be saved from it? LOL Get real.
The smoke of their torment is for ever and ever. All we see is smoke.
Does anybody out there think that the incense smoke of the saint's prayers in Revelation is real?
Spiritual hats, everybody.
The "fire" in the le lac de feu has to be spirtual as well, to torment spirit beings in the presence of the lamb. Remember the "fire" that proceeds from God's throne?
Does anybody out there think that the incense smoke of the saint's prayers in Revelation is real?
Spiritual hats, everybody.
The "fire" in the le lac de feu has to be spirtual as well, to torment spirit beings in the presence of the lamb. Remember the "fire" that proceeds from God's throne?
Does anybody out there think that the incense smoke of the saint's prayers in Revelation is real?
Spiritual hats, everybody.
The "fire" in the le lac de feu has to be spirtual as well, to torment spirit beings in the presence of the lamb. Remember the "fire" that proceeds from God's throne?
Matthew 5:34 tells us that the heavens are God's throne... so that it is in heaven that these beings are tormented... Therefore, IF hell exists it is in heaven...
A heavenly hell.... LOL
Rev. 7:15 talks about people in front of God's throne serving.... Are these people in hell?
Heb. 12:2 states that Christ is beside God's throne... is he in hell or is hell just in front of the throne?
You have the dogmatists run to ground . . . they are spewing their rote "precepts and doctrines of men" in shotgun fashion hoping to hit something. But they have the wrong context (you know the one they keep asking you to keep in mind) . . . so none of it has any clout. They are shooting blind in a frantic frenzy. Witness sciota's outbursts about "LIES,LIES, LIES", etc. Time to let them calm down . . . they are our brothers despite their "blind minds" from reading the OT. 2 Corinthians 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
