Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I would say it IS on that list but your not seeing it.
If God see it fit to seperate the gifts as gifts from the fruits of the Spirit, then we should be so incline to call God's gift of tongues for what it is.
It is contrary how churches and ministries push tongues these days when Paul was exhorting the gift of prophesy for the edification of the churches. Unless there was a foreignor among you, there would be no point manifesting tongues to have interpretations when manifesting prophesy would be more direct. And since we do have the written word, believers should be content with that unless God sees fit to declare that which is already written.
Speaking in tongues may be an experience that some Christians have, I am not denying this. It is at God's discretion alone how he uses His great power. However, there are problems with many protestant beliefs concerning special gifts of divine powers. I will explain them now.
Beliefs to Avoid:
1. Faith through Divine Gifts
It is wrong to say that faith is strengthened or received through gifts such as speaking in tongues. God has promised us where we may receive faith: the Means of Grace; that is Baptism, the Word, and the Lord's Supper. Nowhere else may we receive faith, speaking in tongues is not a Means of Grace. Therefore, to say one's faith is strengthened or originated from such gifts is incorrect.
Those that seek tongues should not be doing so as if seeking after a sign. Tongues are a sign for unbelievers: not for the believers. Signs can follow believers but believer are not to follow after signs.
Quote:
2. Baptism in the Holy Spirit
Unfortunately, many denominations believe that after Baptism, a Christian may experience something called Baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is where the Christian has a spiritual experience such as speaking in tongues, divine healing, or visions. I am not saying a Christian cannot have these experiences. The problem lies in the belief that one's faith is not complete without such an experience. Having one does not make you more of a Christian than someone who hasn't had one. Your complete faith comes from the Means of Grace. It was all there at Baptism, no external experience can strengthen it. The Word was with the water, that's all that matters.
2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
The word of God warns against preaching another spirit to receive even if it is believed to be the "Holy Spirit". Often times than not, believers are believing every spirit that comes into the place or come upon them, not testing nor trying the spirits. The error of this second encounter is obvious as it leads wayward believers into thinking that there is another experience of the Holy Spirit to seek after.
There is only one hope of our calling as there is one baptism of the Holy Spirit:
Ephesians 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
There is only one drink of the Holy Spirit:
2 Corinthians 12: 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Quote:
There's my input, I hope it helps. Yes, gifts such as speaking in Tongues may exist today, but they don't mean that that person's faith is any stronger because of them.
<B>"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
-Ephesians 2:8-9
</B>
My input is that believers should not be seeking after tongues but the gift of prophesy as Paul exhorted the believers at Corinth to do.
One has to be aware that there are tongues in the world that comes with seeking after familiar spirits and God would not mimick vain and profane babbling because His gift of tongues are of other men's lips that needs an interpretation as it is never meant to be used as a prayer language as the heathens uses theirs for. God will not copycat Satan's tongues.
2 Timothy 2:16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
That is why believers are not to believe every spirit but try them to see how that spirit is leading the believers to say and to do as to whethor or not it is the Spirit of Truth or the spirit of error.
Whenever anyone confess that the Spirit of Christ is in the place, noting the coming and going of what they misperceived as the Holy Spirit: then that is the spirit of the anti-christ.
The faith declares that Jesus Christ is in us.
2 Corinthians 13:5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Colossians 1:27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Those that seek tongues should not be doing so as if seeking after a sign. Tongues are a sign for unbelievers: not for the believers. Signs can follow believers but believer are not to follow after signs.
Tongues are not a sign for unbelievers, they are not one of the Means of Grace. In fact, the Bible warns against using signs as a basis for faith:
"'A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.'" (Matt. 16:4)
Even within the Church itself, signs should not really be taken seriously, even if they are done in the name of Jesus, they may not be God-pleasing:
"'Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"'" (Matt. 7:21-23)
In the last days, we shall increasingly be burdened with false signs:
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." (Matt. 24:24)
Quote:
2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
The word of God warns against preaching another spirit to receive even if it is believed to be the "Holy Spirit". Often times than not, believers are believing every spirit that comes into the place or come upon them, not testing nor trying the spirits. The error of this second encounter is obvious as it leads wayward believers into thinking that there is another experience of the Holy Spirit to seek after.
There is only one hope of our calling as there is one baptism of the Holy Spirit:
Ephesians 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
There is only one drink of the Holy Spirit:
2 Corinthians 12: 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Originally Posted by Enow Those that seek tongues should not be doing so as if seeking after a sign. Tongues are a sign for unbelievers: not for the believers. Signs can follow believers but believer are not to follow after signs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
Tongues are not a sign for unbelievers, they are not one of the Means of Grace. In fact, the Bible warns against using signs as a basis for faith:
"'A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.'" (Matt. 16:4)
Even within the Church itself, signs should not really be taken seriously, even if they are done in the name of Jesus, they may not be God-pleasing:
"'Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"'" (Matt. 7:21-23)
In the last days, we shall increasingly be burdened with false signs:
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." (Matt. 24:24)
I was referring to these verses.
1 Corinthians 14:20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Those that believe not can hear the Gospel in their native tongue as this did occur on the Day of Pentecost. Whethor or not they believe what they are hearing is another matter.
1 Corinthians 14:20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
That verse is talking about tongues and their usefulness as apposed to prophecy. The passage has nothing to do with the context of true faith, really.
Yes, an unbeliever may be intrigued by tongues, but may not receive faith as a direct result.
Quote:
Those that believe not can hear the Gospel in their native tongue as this did occur on the Day of Pentecost. Whethor or not they believe what they are hearing is another matter.
See, this is an interesting thing you've brought up here. On the Day of the Pentecost, the Apostles were indeed speaking in tongues (although they were of man). But is this what lead the people who heard them to faith? No! Their faith came from the Gospel being preached! Therefore, faith can be received through the Gospel, no matter if it was told in foreign or native tongues.
If God see it fit to seperate the gifts as gifts from the fruits of the Spirit, then we should be so incline to call God's gift of tongues for what it is.
It is contrary how churches and ministries push tongues these days when Paul was exhorting the gift of prophesy for the edification of the churches. Unless there was a foreignor among you, there would be no point manifesting tongues to have interpretations when manifesting prophesy would be more direct. And since we do have the written word, believers should be content with that unless God sees fit to declare that which is already written.
If God see it fit to seperate the gifts as gifts from the fruits of the Spirit, then we should be so incline to call God's gift of tongues for what it is.
It is contrary how churches and ministries push tongues these days when Paul was exhorting the gift of prophesy for the edification of the churches. Unless there was a foreignor among you, there would be no point manifesting tongues to have interpretations when manifesting prophesy would be more direct. And since we do have the written word, believers should be content with that unless God sees fit to declare that which is already written.
Yes, Enow, I'm sure I have the gift of Talking in Tongues. But this subject is far more a mystery than most that claim to have this gift actually understand. This gift does me no good to those that do not have it.
Yes, Enow, I'm sure I have the gift of Talking in Tongues. But this subject is far more a mystery than most that claim to have this gift actually understand. This gift does me no good to those that do not have it.
You are right. If a person has tongues and there is no interpretation, and he is manifesting this tongue when alone: I would doubt the validity of that tongue being of God.
If a whole church was doing tongues and someone came in and saw this, he would think they were mad. The same can be said for someone coming in on that one person speaking in tongues when all by himself.
If God wants us to abstain from all appearances of evil, then praying like the heathen do in babbling prayer or as the occultists do in seeking after familiar spirits, then the Holy Spirit would not manifest solitary tongues at all. God will not copycat Satan especially since He will be calling those in the world to come out of the world and depart from their wicked practises to be witnesses of the Son and to abide in Him. They cannot be seen as abiding in Him if similar practises from the occult are being seen in christianity thus tongues will never be manifested by the Holy Spirit for prayer purposes, solitary or otherwise.
Incidentally, if you have tongues, does your church follow the guideline layed out for the churches to follow and that is to have two or three speak in tongues while one interprets? The same standard goes for those that prophesy: two or three shall prophesy while one judges.
I truly wonder if God has ever awaken a church caught in a vanity of the misuse of the gifts only to find out that they never had those gifts to begin with? Such zealousness can lead to blindness when done out of order.
I had been thinking that I should just withdraw from the internet since it seemed as though no one was listening.
I trust Him to direct my footsteps no matter what I decide in my heart to do. I reckon I shall be here till He leads me elsewhere.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
