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If you read the preceding verses it is clearly stating, that God created man to seek after him, but as you well know the scriptures tell us, "there is none that seek after God, no not one"it's him seeking us,you either have to be blind,deaf or stiff necked or all 3 of them not to accept this too, thus your interpretation of this scripture is false.
Mike what do you think "THOUGH He is not far from each one of us" means ?.No groping necessary
He is not far from us . Christendom is trying to get us to believe what it believes, unfortunately that's all it is a belief,God wants you to know somebody, flesh and blood can not find this somebody, neither can it make known this somebody to you , that is the job of our Father in heaven who is also not far from us (closer than breathing).
Romans 3:10-11 says that no one seeks God [of his own initiative]. But God takes the initiative. John 16:8-11 says the Holy Spirit convicts the world of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness, and of judgment. And the world mentioned in John 16:8 is the same world mentioned in John 3:16.''For God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him, should not perish but have eternal life.'
Romans 1:18-21 says that nature - natural revelation is a witness to everyone that God exists. Many suppress the truth of God and therefore they might receive no further light. But those who welcome the truth of natural revelation and seek God with the light they have will receive more light and more information from God through the gospel message. The Scriptures indicate that God is drawing all people. Romans 3:10-11 says only that man on his own initiative - left to himself - will not seek God. But since God seeks man, man is free to respond to God's call.
Go back and read what I said in post #227 about common and efficacious grace in relation to the gospel. God calls through the gospel and the Holy Spirit makes it understandable to man so that man can choose. This is clear as can be. God calls though the gospel. He extends the invitation to receive the gift of eternal life, to which man can say 'yes' or 'no.'
Here. I've copied what I said in that post. 'At gospel hearing the Holy Spirit in His ministry of common grace makes the gospel message understandable to the unbeliever. He convicts the unbeliever of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness and of judgement (John 16:8-11). The unbeliever is therefore able to understand the issue and make a decision for or against Christ. If the gospel hearer is persuaded by what he has heard, that Jesus is who He claims He is, and assuming the one hearing the gospel doesn't suppress the truth and wants to enter into an eternal relationship with Christ, he will accept Him as Savior. At that point, God the Holy Spirit will in His ministry of efficacious grace, take the non-meritorious faith of the one believing and carry it to the point of salvation. He will make the faith effective for salvation.
God has revealed Himself through creation in a general way, and through the gospel in a specific way. God makes it possible to respond to the gospel. Whether or not a person does is his personal choice.'
Last edited by Michael Way; 03-26-2011 at 05:36 PM..
Romans 3:10-11 says that no one seeks God in his own initiative. But God takes the initiative. John 16:8-11 says the Holy Spirit convicts the world of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness, and of judgment. And the world mentioned in John 16:8 is the same world mentioned in John 3:16.''For God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him, should not perish but have eternal life.'
Romans 1:18-21 says that nature - natural revelation is a witness to everyone that God exists. Many suppress the truth of God and therefore they might receive no further light. But those who welcome the truth of natural revelation and seek God with the light they have will receive more light and more information from God through the gospel message. The Scriptures indicate that God is drawing all people... Romans 3:10-11 says only that man on his own initiative - left to himself - will not seek God. But since God seeks man, man is free to respond to God's call.
Go back and read what I said in post #227 about common and efficacious grace in relation to the gospel. God calls through the gospel and the Holy Spirit makes it understandable to man so that man can choose. This is clear as can be. God calls though the gospel. He extends the invitation to receive the gift of eternal life, to which man can say 'yes' or 'no.'
Here. I've copied what I said in that post. 'At gospel hearing the Holy Spirit in His ministry of common grace makes the gospel message understandable to the unbeliever. He convicts the unbeliever of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness and of judgement (John 16:8-11). The unbeliever is therefore able to understand the issue and make a decision for or against Christ. If the gospel hearer is persuaded by what he has heard, that Jesus is who He claims He is, and assuming the one hearing the gospel doesn't suppress the truth and wants to enter into an eternal relationship with Christ, he will accept Him as Savior. At that point, God the Holy Spirit will in His ministry of efficacious grace, take the non-meritorious faith of the one believing and carry it to the point of salvation. He will make the faith effective for salvation.
God has revealed Himself through creation in a general way, and through the gospel in a specific way. God makes it possible to respond to the gospel. Whether or not a person does is his personal choice.'
Oh Dear. Deliver me from evil, for thine is the kingdom the power and the glory to the ages
Problem with Tentmaker is that they have some stuff wrong in my opinion.
Lazarus is the same lazarus that was raised from the dead. We know this because:
Lazarus is said to be full of sores such that the dogs licked the sores. That symbolizes what is known as leprosy. So this lazarus is a leper. What isn't clear to many is that the Lazarus that Jesus rose from the dead was a leper. But look:
Mat 26:6 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper,
Joh 11:1 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
Joh 11:2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)
That is still an assumption that you are making, just because Lazarus was sick and lived in Bethany, doesn't mean that he is the same person as Simon the leper ...
Though i know that it is supposed by many that the two are one and the same.
It just seems strange to me that Christ who loved Lazarus so much would have let him rot to death as a leper and then resurrect him instead of simply healing him to begin with ... You know what i mean?
It also says, Acts 17:26 'and He made from one, every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times, and the boundaries of their habitation, 27] that they should seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.'
God has made Himself known through His creation so that man has no excuse for disbelief. Romans 1:19-20
I've told you a couple of times now. At gospel hearing the Holy Spirit in His ministry of common grace makes the gospel message understandable to the unbeliever. He convicts the unbeliever of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness and of judgement (John 16:8-11). The unbeliever is therefore able to understand the issue and make a decision for or against Christ. If the gospel hearer is persuaded by what he has heard that Jesus is who He claims He is, and assuming the one hearing the gospel doesn't suppress the truth and wants to enter into an eternal relationship with Christ, he will accept Him as Savior. At that point, God the Holy Spirit will in His ministry of efficacious grace, take the non-meritorious faith of the one believing and carry it to the point of salvation. He will make the faith effective for salvation.
The point I am trying to make is that no man can come to “god”, unless “god” draws them first. Various people do seek “god”, however it was because “god” himself drew them to seek. That's really my whole point in a nutshell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
God has revealed Himself through creation in a general way, and through the gospel in a specific way. God makes it possible to respond to the gospel. Whether or not a person does is his personal choice.
You are a free willer aren't cha'?
Last edited by kids in america_; 03-27-2011 at 02:18 PM..
That is still an assumption that you are making, just because Lazarus was sick and lived in Bethany, doesn't mean that he is the same person as Simon the leper ...
Though i know that it is supposed by many that the two are one and the same.
It just seems strange to me that Christ who loved Lazarus so much would have let him rot to death as a leper and then resurrect him instead of simply healing him to begin with ... You know what i mean?
You would have to argue against a weight of evidence to the contrary. The fact is that Jesus did let Lazarus die regardless if he was a leper or not. We all have an ailment which is sin. Just because someone is a leper doesn't mean that that the curse is greater - the result is the same - death. Remember, Jesus could have healed the entire world at that moment if it was God's purpose but it was not.
I just wanted to add that to me it seems Jesus by letting the leper die and raising him was a greater demonstration of strength since surely the Israelites would have seen a leper as being a cursed person and this demonstrates that Jesus raised one that was cursed. An amazing demonstration of the Merciful Spirit of God.
The point I am trying to make is that no man can come to “god”, unless “god” draws them first. Various people do seek “god”, however it was because “god” himself drew them to seek. That's really my whole point in a nutshell.
You are a free willer aren't cha'?
And I have explained how God draws man. God has made a general revelation of Himself through His creation, and through the gospel God makes a specific revelation of Christ, and through common and efficacious grace man can understand and respond to the gospel.
Because of the general revelation of God in nature, man can seek to understand God. God will make that possible through a presentation of the gospel message to which man must respond.
If a person will respond positively to the amount of light that comes though the general revelation that creation gives concerning God, then God will give greater light in the form of the Gospel message to which man must make a volitional response if he is to be eternally saved. Efficacious grace carries the positive faith response of the hearer of the gospel to the point of salvation.
And I have explained how God draws man. God has made a general revelation of Himself through His creation, and through the gospel God makes a specific revelation of Christ, and through common and efficacious grace man can understand and respond to the gospel.
Because of the general revelation of God in nature, man can seek to understand God. God will make that possible through a presentation of the gospel message to which man must respond.
If a person will respond positively to the amount of light that comes though the general revelation that creation gives concerning God, then God will give greater light in the form of the Gospel message to which man must make a volitional response if he is to be eternally saved. Efficacious grace carries the positive faith response of the hearer of the gospel to the point of salvation.
This is not scriptural. I can understand, though, how you have to believe something like this to come to terms with the character of God you believe in. For him to be fair and just, you'd have to somehow make sure everyone is blamed for their own demise and believe that God treated them all the same in respect to giving them their "chance."
You would have to argue against a weight of evidence to the contrary. The fact is that Jesus did let Lazarus die regardless if he was a leper or not. We all have an ailment which is sin. Just because someone is a leper doesn't mean that that the curse is greater - the result is the same - death. Remember, Jesus could have healed the entire world at that moment if it was God's purpose but it was not.
I just wanted to add that to me it seems Jesus by letting the leper die and raising him was a greater demonstration of strength since surely the Israelites would have seen a leper as being a cursed person and this demonstrates that Jesus raised one that was cursed. An amazing demonstration of the Merciful Spirit of God.
Again, i do not necessarily agree with your assumption, as Christ healed lepers and other sick people ... It does not stand to reason that he would opt not to heal his beloved friend of the same. Christ did not "let" Lazarus die necessarily, he was simply not there when it happened and when he found out he rushed to the tomb to rectify the matter.
But the point is really moot, as it cannot be proven one way or the other ... So i will not debate the matter with you further ... It was only my intention to show that your interpretation is likely just as implausible as you may think others to be ...
Maybe you are right, but the fact is the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is certainly about the Israel losing their inheritance for a time to the gentiles. However, i will add that there is some speculation that Lazarus, the friend of Christ, was himself a Gentile ... So the interpretation could still be the same though the person of Lazarus may not be ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 03-28-2011 at 12:36 PM..
This is not scriptural. I can understand, though, how you have to believe something like this to come to terms with the character of God you believe in. For him to be fair and just, you'd have to somehow make sure everyone is blamed for their own demise and believe that God treated them all the same in respect to giving them their "chance."
This is not scriptural. I can understand, though, how you have to believe something like this to come to terms with the character of God you believe in. For him to be fair and just, you'd have to somehow make sure everyone is blamed for their own demise and believe that God treated them all the same in respect to giving them their "chance."
Many deal only within the parameters of opposites, never seeing the rising of the Son in the heart of humanity.
A few belong to a little flock which is not blended with good and evil thoughts, for the absence of one thing; leaves only the presence of the other.
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. Christendom is trying to get us to believe what it believes, unfortunately that's all it is a belief,God wants you to know somebody, flesh and blood can not find this somebody, neither can it make known this somebody to you , that is the job of our Father in heaven who is also not far from us 