How do you interpret/balance these verses? (Christ, Matthew, pastor)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Seriously do you not see the brother with a speck of dust in his eye, is in a far better place to judge, than the brother who needs the beam taken out of his eye ?. Yet i will guarantee you the brother with the speck in his eye. trusts the Lord to remove the beam out of his brothers eye, rather than play God himself.
That's a great insight, pcamps. I didn't notice that aspect of it, but that makes this passage even more clear to me.
Interesting how many people here are suggesting that we shouldn't practice righteous Judgement. Look at how many people here are saying we shouldn't judge at all. And yet one of them already has said this about me:
Interesting how many people here are suggesting that we shouldn't practice righteous Judgement. Look at how many people here are saying we shouldn't judge at all. And yet one of them already has said this about me:
"Take heed to what you listen to trettep."
There is a huge difference between judging someone . . . and giving them useful advice, trettep.
I think the emphasis of what Jesus said, is clearly and solely directed at the beam in our own eye, and not getting the beam out of our own eye so we can take the speck of dust out of our brothers. Seriously do you not see the brother with a speck of dust in his eye, is in a far better place to judge, than the brother who needs the beam taken out of his eye ?. Yet i will guarantee you the brother with the speck in his eye. trusts the Lord to remove the beam out of his brothers eye, rather than play God himself.
Also the verses "Elijah to come" quoted have nothing to do at all with what Jesus is saying, they are just verses that the carnal mind(the man who does not know himself) takes to justify judging his brother.
Take heed to what you listen to trettep.
I didn't get any useful advice from it and I disagree with that assertion. Judging is simply to "distinguish" as I have used it from the select verses debated.
Wasn't your point about self control to say that people should exercise self control so they can avoid judging people?
Well, if judgment is a positive thing then your comment makes no sense. It makes sense only if judgment is seen as a negative thing.
If you meant something else, you can just explain your point.
Finn, I recently lost my wife, now tell me, are you in any position to judge what is in my heart or my actions?
Would you hound me, about trusting in the Lord?
Correct me, if I exhibited anger or frustration?
Lecture me, if I had a drink?
Knowing she did not believe as you do, would you graciously and lovingly condemn her?
Man's ideologies of judgment, do not concern me.
Now, if you had discernment, perhaps, you would have a drink with me; comfort me, knowing that I am a believer.
But what if I wasn’t a believer, would you still have that drink with me? Or would you lecture me about repentance before it is too late?
Would you tell me, my daughter with a disability (TBI) was possessed by a demon, "if she only had enough faith?"
Or would you have some self-control, not to pass judgment on that which you truly do not comprehend, as not all things are sin!
I know this does not cover all situations or circumstances; murder, adultery or stealing a loaf of bread, but you without first-hand knowledge are not in any position to judge
the heart of another, unless you are them. Of course, this does not mean, you couldn’t encourage them, love them, or even forgive them; for they know not what they do.
I have read many posts that syncretistically place the persons own thoughts into the equation, or the thoughts of others at doctrines.com, finding fault with people simply
because they do not agree with their interpretations, twisting the words to suit their purpose. Perhaps, out of ignorance; unknowingly. Please, go back, read my posts and
tell me where I said judgment was negative or positive. Because it was a reference to having discernment, objectively using good sense and discretion.
Finn, I recently lost my wife, now tell me, are you in any position to judge what is in my heart or my actions?
Would you hound me, about trusting in the Lord?
Correct me, if I exhibited anger or frustration?
Lecture me, if I had a drink?
Knowing she did not believe as you do, would you graciously and lovingly condemn her?
Man's ideologies of judgment, do not concern me.
Now, if you had discernment, perhaps, you would have a drink with me; comfort me, knowing that I am a believer.
But what if I wasn’t a believer, would you still have that drink with me? Or would you lecture me about repentance before it is too late?
Would you tell me, my daughter with a disability (TBI) was possessed by a demon, "if she only had enough faith?"
Or would you have some self-control, not to pass judgment on that which you truly do not comprehend, as not all things are sin!
I know this does not cover all situations or circumstances; murder, adultery or stealing a loaf of bread, but you without first-hand knowledge are not in any position to judge
the heart of another, unless you are them. Of course, this does not mean, you couldn’t encourage them, love them, or even forgive them; for they know not what they do.
I have read many posts that syncretistically place the persons own thoughts into the equation, or the thoughts of others at doctrines.com, finding fault with people simply
because they do not agree with their interpretations, twisting the words to suit their purpose. Perhaps, out of ignorance; unknowingly. Please, go back, read my posts and
tell me where I said judgment was negative or positive. Because it was a reference to having discernment, objectively using good sense and discretion.
I don't condemn you at all, Jerwade; and I sure hope others here don't, either! Your posts here have always seemed to me filled with encouragement and care.
Many, many Blessings of Comfort and Affection to you, Jerwade. Your wife had a very wonderful husband indeed, I am sure of that. (-And I haven't even met you in person! ..But it comes through loud and clear in your posts!)
I didn't get any useful advice from it and I disagree with that assertion. Judging is simply to "distinguish" as I have used it from the select verses debated.
So you believe God wants us to take the beam out of our own eye, so we can take a speck of dust out of our brothers. Do you not see the absurdity of that ?.
If we understood that we had been blinded ourselves too by a beam in our eye(In truth it is God who opens the eyes of those who cannot see),then have it removed only to judge a brother for the speck in his eye, is no different to the wicked servant who was shown great mercy in having his debt wiped away, only for him to find a brother who owed him a few bucks and show him no mercy and have him flung in Jail.
Interesting how many people here are suggesting that we shouldn't practice righteous Judgement. Look at how many people here are saying we shouldn't judge at all. And yet one of them already has said this about me:
"Take heed to what you listen to trettep."
You obviously do not get what i'm saying trettep. What you are taking heed too,is effecting how you judge,you are hearing something in the scripture which is not saying what you think it is, this is no judgement upon you.
I am repeating to you what Jesus said in that passage of scripture you quoted
Consider carefully what you hear," he continued. "With the measure you use, it will be measured to you--and even more.(in the same jail as the wicked servant).
In otherwords if you are listening to your own thoughts, that your brother as this fault that fault and whatever other fault, you are listening to your carnal thoughts, rather than the thoughts of God,and thinking either way pays dividends,with interest.Half our issues in our own individual lives are because we do not take heed to what we are listening to.
I didn't get any useful advice from it and I disagree with that assertion. Judging is simply to "distinguish" as I have used it from the select verses debated.
Distinguish what ? What you see wrong in your brothers eye ?
I thought the problem was the beam in our own eye . Wouldn't you agree that this is the case ? . And when the beam of distinguishing a speck of dust in our brothers eye, is removed from our eye, we really would no longer be distinguishing (beholding) the speck of dust in our brothers eye.
Finn, I recently lost my wife, now tell me, are you in any position to judge what is in my heart or my actions? Would you hound me, about trusting in the Lord? Correct me, if I exhibited anger or frustration? Lecture me, if I had a drink? Knowing she did not believe as you do, would you graciously and lovingly condemn her?
That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Have you fallen off the path? Are you living in sin? Actually I don't even know if you are a believer, and if you are not, then I would not attempt to help you get back on the path. I might help you find the Lord, but the judgment we are talking about is about helping fellow believers, and it is not done by hounding, lecturing and condemnation.
Quote:
Now, if you had discernment, perhaps, you would have a drink with me; comfort me, knowing that I am a believer.
That might be a good way to get started.
Quote:
But what if I wasn’t a believer, would you still have that drink with me?
Why not.
Quote:
Or would you lecture me about repentance before it is too late? Would you tell me, my daughter with a disability (TBI) was possessed by a demon, "if she only had enough faith?"
Quote:
Or would you have some self-control, not to pass judgment on that which you truly do not comprehend, as not all things are sin!
One final time, it is not about 'passing judgment', it is about helping.
Quote:
I know this does not cover all situations or circumstances; murder, adultery or stealing a loaf of bread, but you without first-hand knowledge are not in any position to judge the heart of another, unless you are them. Of course, this does not mean, you couldn’t encourage them, love them, or even forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Whether or not you agree, but it is a duty of a Christian to try to help other believers in such situations. Encouragement, love and forgiveness is certainly a part of the process.
Quote:
Please, go back, read my posts and tell me where I said judgment was negative or positive. Because it was a reference to having discernment, objectively using good sense and discretion.
I already explained how I understood your comment about self control, and it still sounds like you are saying that one should exercise self control to keep oneself from helping another believer, but it only makes sense if you fail to see judgement in a positive light.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. Seriously do you not see the brother with a speck of dust in his eye, is in a far better place to judge, than the brother who needs the beam taken out of his eye ?. Yet i will guarantee you the brother with the speck in his eye. trusts the Lord to remove the beam out of his brothers eye, rather than play God himself.
