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"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us. Here, then, is eternal life--to know that only wise and true God, and you have got to learn how to become Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you. .. God himself, the father of us all dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ." - The Prophet Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 342-345. One can also go to the book of Gospel Principles, the 47th chapter in the official publication of the LDS Church.
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us. Here, then, is eternal life--to know that only wise and true God, and you have got to learn how to become Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you. .. God himself, the father of us all dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ." - The Prophet Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 342-345. One can also go to the book of Gospel Principles, the 47th chapter in the official publication of the LDS Church.
I'm sorry, but Smith definitely separates God the Father from Jesus Christ in the sentence bolded above and boldly says that the Father dwelt here on earth THE SAME AS JESUS CHRIST and was once a man like us.
Our scriptures say that there is no other God before or after Him. If one non-influential person had declared the one time humanity of God many years after the start of Mormonism and it wasn't taken very seriously ever, then I'd have no problem with it. But the claims of Joseph and Brigham (the first two leaders in this movement) about this doctrine and plural wives, I'm sorry I find it suspicious in the highest degree. But most orthodox Christians have the same feelings about me, so.....at least I will not condemn a Mormon to the Lake of Fire no matter how wrong I believe their doctrine to be.
By God's will and grace, yes. It is God's will that we become perfect, as He is perfect. Read the quote from C.S. Lewis again. It explains our belief exactly.
All right:
- men can become gods, which will result in multiple gods
- Adam was NOT a god
- God was NEVER a man
- Joseph Smith did NOT, and will not become a god
Thank you for sharing your views. I must say that they are not in sync with the views of early mormons like Joseph Smith.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 09-23-2011 at 12:14 PM..
Am I mistaken that Mormons believe that God has a wife and they beget spiritual children who are waiting for earthly parents to have physical babies to clothe the spirit children? The subject is Mormon beliefs so it's not too offtrack, but please feel free to address the issue about God having once been a man first.
Am I mistaken that Mormons believe that God has a wife and they beget spiritual children who are waiting for earthly parents to have physical babies to clothe the spirit children? The subject is Mormon beliefs so it's not too offtrack, but please feel free to address the issue about God having once been a man first.
You mean they use our bodies to house the spirit children?
Okay, I'm back and will be able to post for an hour or so tonight. Before I even get started, though, since everybody has pretty much ignored what I said in my first post (Post #20), I am going to repeat once again what constitutes LDS doctrine. I previously explained what I had to say in my own words. Maybe, if the same message is expressed by the LDS Church's leadership (taken from the Church's official website) it will carry more weight. This statement comes directly from the LDS Church heirarchy:
In a 2007 statement issued by the Church, the following guidelines were given as to what constitutes LDS doctrine:
Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.
Some doctrines are more important than others and might be considered core doctrines. For example, the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important than doctrine about Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. The mistake that public commentators often make is taking an obscure teaching that is peripheral to the Church’s purpose and placing it at the very center. This is especially common among reporters or researchers who rely on how other Christians interpret Latter-day Saint doctrine.
I am going to do my best to answer the questions which have been posed, but I will simply ignore those posts which continue to reference non-doctrinal material.
Sounds like they changed the teaching when it was challenged, and there seems to be some effort to hide and and 'explain away' some other teachings.
We have never changed any of our teachings when they are challenged, and we have absolutely no reason whatsoever to hide or "explain away" any of our doctrines. I have been a practicing member of the Church my entire life. I was born in 1948 and was baptized and confirmed a member of the Church at the age of eight. I have attended church on Sundays for as long as I can remember. Our church services are broken into three one-hour sessions, one of them is a general worship service; the other two are classroom study. I also attended religion classes every day for four years while in high school. The time I have spent in church and in religion classes during my lifetime exceeds 9000 hours. It is a fact that during my 63 years as a member of the Church, I have never once heard a sermon or lesson that focused on God's beginnings. I have heard perhaps fewer than 10 mere mentions of the "As man is, God once was..." couplet or to Joseph Smith's reference to what God "once was" in his King Follett Discourse. I have heard perhaps a couple of dozen lessons (Sunday School, etc.) on man's potential to become like God. Can you please at least try to understand how frustrating it is to constantly have people tell us, "Mormons believe that God was once a man" when one could attend LDS worship services and classroom instruction totalling 9000 hours and never hear this taught? If this was a core teaching of our faith, believe me, we'd hear it taught every Sunday. It would be drilled into our heads as truth. What does it tell you when I say that this is simply not what's happening?
Indeed, that is why I made sure I wrote that it is a belief in some capacity. In comparison to what we are now and what God the Father will perfect us into, we will be gods.
Most people misunderstand (usually through lack of discussion) that many who believe they will become a god are self indulgent thinking that they would be independant of the supreme authority of the Father.
It is a bold statement in most religious climates to claim I will become a god, but I will, as will everyone as children of the most high.
What else would the offspring of a God be, but a god in some capacity, in that context could we be independant of the most high? absolutely not
People scoff mostly because they can't believe such a thing is possible, let alone that their own scriptures say it.
Everything you've said makes perfect sense to me. Thank you for your comments, Phazelwood.
You mean they use our bodies to house the spirit children?
Well, I would think it would be similar to those who believe in the pre-existence of our souls, who wait for a body to inhabit in order to live this mortal life and be tried and tested. Tho I don't believe in pre-existence, per se, what I find strange is that I've heard/read in Mormon literature that God has a wife to produce spiritual children, in the same manner humans do, and that a husband and wife who are married for eternity in the Mormon temple can possibly reach that bliss as God and Goddess in 'heaven' and make spirit babies, who in turn, wait for a body to inhabit on earth to undergo their trial.
I totally understand about doctrinal beliefs, for there are many denominations within Christianity who adhere to things that certain men have said and others who do not accept what they said as doctrine. However, to me, when the founder of the movement reveals such a revolutionary idea as Smith did about the Father, and then the leaders reject it so many years later, can you then really trust the other things Smith said? What does this say about him? I know there are things Paul said that not everyone adheres to today, but they are pretty minor things, such as headcovering for women, etc. And some of us disagree as to translation on other things the Christ and the apostles and Paul said. But there is no translation problem with what Smith said as we speak the same language.
But I don't want to harp on these things. I've said my peace. I don't claim to have all the answers and only want to know the true Father and His plans for me.
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