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Old 01-07-2012, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,658,228 times
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God wrote the Ten Commandments, and Moses wrote the ceremonial law, or book of the law.

And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God (Exodus 31:18).

And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables (Exodus 32:16).

When Moses returned from meeting with God on Sinai he found that the Israelites had made for themselves a golden calf to worship. Moses was so angry that he broke the tablets of stone. Then God said to him, “Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood. And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark” (Deuteronomy 10:1-2).

When Moses broke the first tablets, it symbolized the law of God that had been broken by God’s people when they served the golden calf. The law did not change as a result of the people’s sin. Rather, God wrote the law again onto the new tables of stone that Moses fashioned, symbolizing that we have to be co-workers together with God in upholding His law. Only in God’s strength can we uphold the law, but we must cooperate with Him in this regard.

The two tables of stone were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.

The Mosaic Law or The Ceremonial Law was a law of types and ceremonies written by Moses in in the book of the law, and was placed beside the Ark.


And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee (Deuteronomy 31:24-26).

These two sets of laws, the one moral and the other ceremonial, were entirely different and served different purposes.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,658,228 times
Reputation: 853
Default Jesus' sacrifice on the cross never did away with the law of the Ten Commandments.

The following passage does NOT mean that we no longer have to obey the Ten Commandments...

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross (Colossians 2:14).

It speaks ONLY to ONE law...The Mosaic Law or The Ceremonial Law which was the law that was against us, that showed us our transgressions...NOT the Ten Commandments.

When Jesus died on the cross, he "blotted out" and satisfied the demands of the "Law of Ceremonies" or, The Mosaic Law.

Christ satisfied the demands of the ceremonial law by becoming the Lamb slain for the sins of the world. He fulfilled the obligation of the law of Ten Commandments by His perfect obedience to its precepts. After His death, the law of ceremonies was discontinued because it foreshadowed the cross, but the law of Ten Commandments did not change, nor was it done away with. The same law is still to be found in the New Testament and those who follow Christ must continue to live by this law...

Jesus said, in John 14:15, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

He also said, in John 14:21, "Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

He also replied, in John 14:23, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."

Jesus also said, in John 15:10, "If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love."

And Jesus' precious disciple, John, said, under the power of the Holy Spirit, in 1 John 2:3, "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands."

And John also said, under the power of the Holy Spirit of Christ, in 1 John 5:3, "This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,..."

And John confirms WHAT IS THE LOVE OF GOD, in 2 John 1:6, "And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love..."

...everyone so often speaks of how much they love God...but they do not keep His commandments...they are deceived if they think that God considers their "supposed" love as true love for Him...He does not...for He says, anyone who says they know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in them.

I stand upon the Rock of Truth...and I do not care who ! or what attempts you make ! to sway me or anyone else off the path unto righteousness In Christ...ALL of your mindless attempts are futile. You are waisting your time. You fail in every attempt to do so...as I stand upon the Rock of Truth...forever !

God Bless you all...each and every one ! Amen \o/ !

Love,
Verna.

Last edited by Verna Perry; 01-07-2012 at 10:22 AM.. Reason: correct spelling
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Arizona
267 posts, read 296,992 times
Reputation: 58
Default Still awaiting a direct response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
I stand upon the Rock of Truth...and I do not care who ! or what attempts you make ! to sway me or anyone else off the path unto righteousness In Christ...ALL of your mindless attempts are futile. You are waisting your time. You fail in every attempt to do so...as I stand upon the Rock of Truth...forever !

God Bless you all...each and every one ! Amen \o/ !

Love,
Verna.

Friend Verna,

As usual you are mistaken. You stand on the doctrines of men. It is well known that you can not be shaken in your dedication to these deceptions. In responding to your posts it is not a challenge directed at you or anyone else. It is merely the opportunity to demonstrate the fallacy in the information found in these doctrines you promote.

You can claim that no information can stand against you doctrines of men but the Bible does not fail in doing so, even if you have been blinded to the truth. Why do you not provide any direct response to the scripture presented that contradicts doctrine. Anyone can see in the posts that it is the scripture that contradicts you, not I. I merely add bolding or color coding for a quick reference to the commentary.

There have been posted two scriptural references that directly and explicitly contradict the doctrines you promote. You have not been able to even respond to them directly. Your only response is to repeat your false doctrine, which is 95% Man made philosophical reasoning, 3% ostentatious posturing about its merit, 1.5% warning not to disagree, and 0.5% quoting of misapplied scripture.

Your resonse to those scriptures that directly contradict your doctrine remain unaddressed. You seem to be responding like the child who closes their eyes thinking then the thing they fear will go away.

Can you not examine these scriptures closely and demontrate that you accept them, and yet explain how they are not inconflict with your doctrine. BOTH sets explicitly read as an indication that the ten commandments are also part of the written lawa that has been done away with.
You want to ignore the preceeding verse Romans 7:6? And the explicit meaning it carries in conjunction with the very next verse you cite, Romans 7:7?
(Romans 7:6,7) 6 But now we have been discharged from the Law, because we have died to that by which we were being held fast, that we might be slaves in a new sense by the spirit, and not in the old sense by the written code.7 What, then, shall we say? Is the Law sin? Never may that become so! Really I would not have come to know sin if it had not been for the Law; and, for example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: “You must not covet.”(NWT)

(All speaking of the law in past tense.)
Knowing the law in our hearts and following it (Romans 2:14,27) is very different then being under obligation to the written law.

Is your answer interpretation? Is mine interpretation? "we have been discharged from the Law" seems explicit to me. You even recognize the example in verse 7 of the law we are discharged from being the Ten Commandments. There is no need for interpretation to see the ten commandments are included in the law we are discharged from.

Verse 7 is the EXAMPLE that goes with verse 6 concerning the laws we have been discharged from. We learned from the law, of course, but we are discharged from the written law now.


You also ignore the verses that explicitly identify the Ten Commandments are "done away with"
(2 Corinthians 3:7-11)7 Moreover, if the code which administers death and which was engraved in letters in stones came about in a glory, so that the sons of Israel could not gaze intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, [a glory] that was to be done away with, 8 why should not the administering of the spirit be much more with glory? 9 For if the code administering condemnation was glorious, much more does the administering of righteousness abound with glory. 10 In fact, even that which has once been made glorious has been stripped of glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels it. 11 For if that which was to be done away with was brought in with glory, much more would that which remains be with glory.(NWT)
We see the explicit message here too. "The code... engraved in letters on stones" that is specifically and explicitly the Ten Commandments! We also can simply read that the "glory" of them "was to be done away with". You say I am interpreting but this is obvious to anyone who can read.


I, and i am sure many others, are anxious to hear your analysis of the scriptures. PLEASE paste these ( Romans 7:6,7; 1 Corinthians 3:7-11)scriptural references is a reply and provide your own detailed examination of the message in these verses.
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Arizona
267 posts, read 296,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
God wrote the Ten Commandments, and Moses wrote the ceremonial law, or book of the law.

And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God (Exodus 31:18).

And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables (Exodus 32:16).

When Moses returned from meeting with God on Sinai he found that the Israelites had made for themselves a golden calf to worship. Moses was so angry that he broke the tablets of stone. Then God said to him, “Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood. And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark” (Deuteronomy 10:1-2).

When Moses broke the first tablets, it symbolized the law of God that had been broken by God’s people when they served the golden calf. The law did not change as a result of the people’s sin. Rather, God wrote the law again onto the new tables of stone that Moses fashioned, symbolizing that we have to be co-workers together with God in upholding His law. Only in God’s strength can we uphold the law, but we must cooperate with Him in this regard.

The two tables of stone were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.

The Mosaic Law or The Ceremonial Law was a law of types and ceremonies written by Moses in in the book of the law, and was placed beside the Ark.


And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee (Deuteronomy 31:24-26).

These two sets of laws, the one moral and the other ceremonial, were entirely different and served different purposes.

They are not two different Laws.

When was it said that there was a:
Ten Commandments Covenant
Stone Tablet Covenant
The Top Ten And All The Rest Covenant
The Irsraelites have always had the Mosaic Covenant, which has ALWAYS been inclusive of the Ten Commandments.

You can timeline the events that led to the results, but that does not alter the result that the Mosaic Covenant was the result.

You still have not provided one scripture that explicitly differentiates the two. Just because you are blinded by your man made doctrine and see it implied any time you see the word "law" or "commandments", does not mean there is an explicit statment. Look-up explicit and implicit in the dictionary, that may help you.
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:33 PM
 
Location: earth?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
Using their own publication You Can Live Forever in Paradise © 1982, ©1989, you can read a short passage. It says on page 190 under the heading ONE TRUE RELIGION. " It is only logical that there would be one true religion. This is in harmony with the fact that the true God is a God, 'not of disorder, but of peace.' (1Corintians 14:33) The Bible says that actually there is only 'one faith.' (Ephesians 4:5) Who, then are the ones who form the body of true worshipers today? We do not hesitate to say that they are Jehovah's Witnesses."

Do you agree with that statement that only Jehovah's Witnesses are true worshipers of God?
So silly and arrogant. If Jesus only lived 2,000 year's ago, who was God all of the millions of years before that?
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Arizona
267 posts, read 296,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Many Christians have not yet seen the difference between the Mosaic Law (The added law of Galatians 3:19) and The Ten Commandments. It is a serious error to suggest that The Ten Commandments are one with the ceremonial law.

James calls The Ten Commandments "the law of liberty" (James 2:10-12) and Paul calls the Mosaic law "the yoke of bondage":

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Gal 5:1-2)

Do you see how Paul identified "the yoke of bondage" with circumcision, which was part of the Mosaic Law? Circumcision was never part of The Ten Commandments. Here is another verse where Paul made a clear distinction between the ceremonial law and the moral law of God:

"Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but {what matters is} the keeping of the commandments of God." (1 Cor 7:19)

If The Ten Commandments are one with the ceremonial law, Paul was not aware of it when he wrote that verse. Read more evidence that Paul made a distinction between The Law of God and the ceremonial law:

"Then those who are physically UNCIRCUMCISED **but keep the law** will condemn you who have THE WRITTEN CODE AND CIRCUMCISION **but break the law.**" (Rom 2:27)

If The Ten Commandments are one with the ceremonial law, then how could one be uncircumcised and still be keeping the precepts of the law? Here, Paul clearly distinguishes between "the written code" and "the law:". The only law referred to in the context of Romans 2 is The Ten Commandments. (See verses 2:17, 21, 22.)

The following excerpt from church history may surprise many of you, and hopefully lessen your trust in the people who have wrongfully told you that The Ten Commandments were abolished at the cross:

Written by an early church father (2nd century)

GOD ADDED MOSAIC LAW AS YOKE OF BONDAGE

"1. They [the Jews] had therefore a law, a course of discipline, and a prophecy of future things. For God at the first, indeed, warning them by means of natural precepts, which from the beginning He had implanted in mankind, that is by means of the Decalogue, (which, if any one does not observe, he has no salvation), DID THEN DEMAND NOTHING MORE OF THEM. As Moses says in Deuteronomy,

'These are all the words which the Lord spake to the whole assembly of the sons of Israel on the mount, **and He added no more;** and He wrote them on two tables of stone, and gave them to me.' (Deut 5:22)

For this reason, that they who are willing to follow Him might keep these commandments. BUT when they turned themselves to make a calf, and had gone back in their minds to Egypt, desiring to be slaves instead of freemen, THEY WERE PLACED FOR THE FUTURE IN A STATE OF SERVITUDE SUITED TO THEIR WISH, - which did not indeed cut them off from God, but SUBJECTED THEM TO THE YOKE OF BONDAGE; as Ezekiel the prophet, when stating the reasons for the giving of such a law, declares:

'And their eyes were after the desire of their heart; and I gave them STATUTES THAT WERE NOT GOOD, and judgements in which they shall not live' (Ezek 20:24)

IRENAEUS AGAINST HERESIES, (AD 120 - 202) from The Ante-Nicene Fathers, TT Clark 1897 (see Gal 2:4, 3:19)

[It is important to note that in contrast to Ezekiel, the prophet Nehemiah says the statutes given on Mt. Sinai were "good statutes", whereas Ezekiel calls the Mosaic law: "statutes that were NOT good]:

"Thou camest down also upon Mt. Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgements, and true laws, GOOD STATUTES and commandments" (Neh 9:13)

In addition, a Chronology of the events at Mt. Sinai, shows that the ceremonial law was given in May of 1490 b.c.; on the other hand, The Ten Commandments in May of 1491 b.c.; therefore, THE DIETARY LAWS (part of the yoke of bondage) were commanded a full YEAR after the Decalogue. The Mosaic law was part of a second covenant with a second set of tablets.

After they made the calf, God was going to destroy the Israelites, but Moses begged the Lord for their forgiveness and the nation was allowed a reprieve, but with a much stricter set of rules designed to keep their minds on obedience to God's law. That was the yoke of bondage.

Now you can understand what Paul meant when he said: "Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions," The Mosaic law was added to the original covenant (The Ten Commandments) because of Israel's
transgressions.

The breaking of the first covenant caused God to make another which put the Israelites under bondage to the entire Mosaic Law. When Christ came, he freed His people from the ceremonial elements of the Mosaic law but not from obedience to the Commandments of God.

Please note the deliberate and pointed comment Irenaeus made above, about the necessity of obedience to the Ten Commandments:

"1. They [the Jews] had therefore a law, a course of discipline, and a prophecy of future things. For God at the first, indeed, warning them by means of natural precepts, which from the beginning He had implanted in
mankind, that is by means of the Decalogue, **(which, if any one does not observe, he has no salvation),**DID THEN DEMAND NOTHING MORE OF THEM."



The original covenant was the Ten Commandments -- not the Mosaic law.



With this in mind, it would behoove all of us to get serious about our relationship with God and work out our salvation with fear and trembling.



God Bless you,
Love in Christ,
Verna.

Friend Verna,

We again see that in the promotion of the doctrines of men, we have all talk and no examination of the scriptures.

It is a lengthy presentation and full of nothing. It even includes the bogus Romans 7:7 interpretation that is directly contradicted by Romans 7:6 , which this man made doctrine always ignores.

It is also funny that being so light on scripture and unable to examine even one in its presentation, it then defers to NON-Biblical sources for authentication. More than half the post! Maybe you find Irenaeus and contemporaries more authoritative than the scriptures, but that appeal to non-Biblical sources is a common hallmark for those who follow doctrines of men.

I also find it quite amusing that the conclusion is that the original covenant was the Ten Commandments. That is false a purely speculative musing! There was NEVER a Ten Commandments Covenant with Israel; there was ONLY the Mosaic Covenant, which included the Ten Commandments.

I look forward to a real presentation and examination of scripture in defense of your doctrine.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Arizona
267 posts, read 296,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
The following passage does NOT mean that we no longer have to obey the Ten Commandments...

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross (Colossians 2:14).

It speaks ONLY to ONE law...The Mosaic Law or The Ceremonial Law which was the law that was against us, that showed us our transgressions...NOT the Ten Commandments.

When Jesus died on the cross, he "blotted out" and satisfied the demands of the "Law of Ceremonies" or, The Mosaic Law.

Christ satisfied the demands of the ceremonial law by becoming the Lamb slain for the sins of the world. He fulfilled the obligation of the law of Ten Commandments by His perfect obedience to its precepts. After His death, the law of ceremonies was discontinued because it foreshadowed the cross, but the law of Ten Commandments did not change, nor was it done away with. The same law is still to be found in the New Testament and those who follow Christ must continue to live by this law...

Jesus said, in John 14:15, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

He also said, in John 14:21, "Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

He also replied, in John 14:23, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."

Jesus also said, in John 15:10, "If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love."

And Jesus' precious disciple, John, said, under the power of the Holy Spirit, in 1 John 2:3, "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands."

And John also said, under the power of the Holy Spirit of Christ, in 1 John 5:3, "This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,..."

And John confirms WHAT IS THE LOVE OF GOD, in 2 John 1:6, "And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love..."

...everyone so often speaks of how much they love God...but they do not keep His commandments...they are deceived if they think that God considers their "supposed" love as true love for Him...He does not...for He says, anyone who says they know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in them.

I stand upon the Rock of Truth...and I do not care who ! or what attempts you make ! to sway me or anyone else off the path unto righteousness In Christ...ALL of your mindless attempts are futile. You are waisting your time. You fail in every attempt to do so...as I stand upon the Rock of Truth...forever !

God Bless you all...each and every one ! Amen \o/ !

Love,
Verna.
Friend Verna,

How you always, and every member of you denomination kept the Sabath perfectly?

I have not heard of anyone being stoned for not following the Sabbath.

So, are they following the law of the Sabath, or is everyone perfect in their observance?
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,658,228 times
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The Mosiac Law and it's binding status for the Israelite descendants would change when "all is fulfilled". All faithful seekers of God's Truth...Jesus Christ...should know that Jesus did, in fact, make sure "all is fulfilled" and said so Himself after His resurrection...

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.



Putting aside the Law of Moses and adopting Christ's commandments to love God

(1 John 5:3, "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.")

and one another

(Matthew 22:37, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."),

we are doing the will of Christ:

"let us love one another: for love is of God, and every one that loveth

(loving God is keeping his commandments - see 1 John 5:3 above)

is born of God

(1 John 3:9, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."),

and loveth God.

(1 John4:7, "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God (see 1 john 3:9 above), and knoweth God." >>> 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.)

It is not the will of Christ to follow the Law of Moses, a final reiteration for clarity:

(Galatians 5:3-4, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law (The Mosiac Law); ye are fallen from grace.)

The Mosiac Law has been repealed...

Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace;..."

Galatians 3:13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"

Romans 10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Galatians 5:3-4 "For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Galatians 2:21 "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

...it couldn't save the Israelites...and it cannot save us...only the obedience of the Ten Commandments can.



In Christ's love, and in His Truth,Verna.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:13 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,019,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
God wrote the Ten Commandments, and Moses wrote the ceremonial law, or book of the law.

And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God (Exodus 31:18).

And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables (Exodus 32:16).

When Moses returned from meeting with God on Sinai he found that the Israelites had made for themselves a golden calf to worship. Moses was so angry that he broke the tablets of stone. Then God said to him, “Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood. And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark” (Deuteronomy 10:1-2).

When Moses broke the first tablets, it symbolized the law of God that had been broken by God’s people when they served the golden calf. The law did not change as a result of the people’s sin. Rather, God wrote the law again onto the new tables of stone that Moses fashioned, symbolizing that we have to be co-workers together with God in upholding His law. Only in God’s strength can we uphold the law, but we must cooperate with Him in this regard.

The two tables of stone were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.

The Mosaic Law or The Ceremonial Law was a law of types and ceremonies written by Moses in in the book of the law, and was placed beside the Ark.


And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee (Deuteronomy 31:24-26).

These two sets of laws, the one moral and the other ceremonial, were entirely different and served different purposes.
Here is the Hebrew word meaning from Deut. 31:26 -

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

The decalogue is the Ten...
Have you ever heard of the Noahide Law?....
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:36 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,019,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWW1962 View Post
Friend Verna,

As usual you are mistaken. You stand on the doctrines of men. It is well known that you can not be shaken in your dedication to these deceptions. In responding to your posts it is not a challenge directed at you or anyone else. It is merely the opportunity to demonstrate the fallacy in the information found in these doctrines you promote.

You can claim that no information can stand against you doctrines of men but the Bible does not fail in doing so, even if you have been blinded to the truth. Why do you not provide any direct response to the scripture presented that contradicts doctrine. Anyone can see in the posts that it is the scripture that contradicts you, not I. I merely add bolding or color coding for a quick reference to the commentary.

There have been posted two scriptural references that directly and explicitly contradict the doctrines you promote. You have not been able to even respond to them directly. Your only response is to repeat your false doctrine, which is 95% Man made philosophical reasoning, 3% ostentatious posturing about its merit, 1.5% warning not to disagree, and 0.5% quoting of misapplied scripture.

Your resonse to those scriptures that directly contradict your doctrine remain unaddressed. You seem to be responding like the child who closes their eyes thinking then the thing they fear will go away.

Can you not examine these scriptures closely and demontrate that you accept them, and yet explain how they are not inconflict with your doctrine. BOTH sets explicitly read as an indication that the ten commandments are also part of the written lawa that has been done away with.
You want to ignore the preceeding verse Romans 7:6? And the explicit meaning it carries in conjunction with the very next verse you cite, Romans 7:7?
(Romans 7:6,7) 6 But now we have been discharged from the Law, because we have died to that by which we were being held fast, that we might be slaves in a new sense by the spirit, and not in the old sense by the written code.7 What, then, shall we say? Is the Law sin? Never may that become so! Really I would not have come to know sin if it had not been for the Law; and, for example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: “You must not covet.”(NWT)

(All speaking of the law in past tense.)
Knowing the law in our hearts and following it (Romans 2:14,27) is very different then being under obligation to the written law.

Is your answer interpretation? Is mine interpretation? "we have been discharged from the Law" seems explicit to me. You even recognize the example in verse 7 of the law we are discharged from being the Ten Commandments. There is no need for interpretation to see the ten commandments are included in the law we are discharged from.

Verse 7 is the EXAMPLE that goes with verse 6 concerning the laws we have been discharged from. We learned from the law, of course, but we are discharged from the written law now.


You also ignore the verses that explicitly identify the Ten Commandments are "done away with"
(2 Corinthians 3:7-11)7 Moreover, if the code which administers death and which was engraved in letters in stones came about in a glory, so that the sons of Israel could not gaze intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, [a glory] that was to be done away with, 8 why should not the administering of the spirit be much more with glory? 9 For if the code administering condemnation was glorious, much more does the administering of righteousness abound with glory. 10 In fact, even that which has once been made glorious has been stripped of glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels it. 11 For if that which was to be done away with was brought in with glory, much more would that which remains be with glory.(NWT)
We see the explicit message here too. "The code... engraved in letters on stones" that is specifically and explicitly the Ten Commandments! We also can simply read that the "glory" of them "was to be done away with". You say I am interpreting but this is obvious to anyone who can read.


I, and i am sure many others, are anxious to hear your analysis of the scriptures. PLEASE paste these ( Romans 7:6,7; 1 Corinthians 3:7-11)scriptural references is a reply and provide your own detailed examination of the message in these verses.
To point out that Paul used the example of covetousness with reference to this Law we are no longer under, and that example was from the decalogue or Ten Commandments...Thou shalt not covet is from the Ten...The word Torah which means statute or law encompases the Ten and Mosaic Law...In fact the 613 Mitzvot includes the Ten...And this is coming from the Jews...The Chosen people of Hawyaw...
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