Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If it would NOT affect your walk with God you are learning nothing about distinguishing Good from Evil . . . which is the only path to spiritual maturity.Nonsense. We are God's children maturing to be "perfect"(means "mature" in the scriptures) as God is "perfect". . . NOT His "Pets" in obedience training (or mindless robots).
Nonsense is right.
What we think or do not think has no bearing on what God's ultimate sovereign will is. Moderator cut: edit
Nonsense is right.
What we think or do not think has no bearing on what God's ultimate sovereign will is.
Of course not . . . but what we are willing to believe that sovereign will IS speaks volumes about our spiritual development and maturity in "knowing" our loving God. Eternal life is that we "know" God.
Would it affect your walk with God if He did send babies/little children to hell? This kind of pondering is no different than the ponderings in the UR camp. They cannot believe God would send unbelievers to hell...Us deciding what should be best is dangerous ground to walk on.
Personally, I feel we need to let God be God and let Him be the sovereign judge, but know and believe His way is just.
The doctrine of original sin is used to teach that we are totally incapable of choosing God. This is a false doctrine. God, within His sovereignty, given us the free will to choose or reject Him, obey or disobey.
So it is not whether or not this effects my walk with God or not. It's about disproving a false doctrine.
So many people give up and won't even consider becoming a christian because they don't believe they are one of the chosen, or they believe they are and therefore eat, drink andbe merry because they're in and cannot lose their salvation. I wonder how many souls have been led down this path of destruction?
The doctrine of original sin is used to teach that we are totally incapable of choosing God. This is a false doctrine. God, within His sovereignty, given us the free will to choose or reject Him, obey or disobey.
So it is not whether or not this effects my walk with God or not. It's about disproving a false doctrine.
So many people give up and won't even consider becoming a christian because they don't believe they are one of the chosen, or they believe they are and therefore eat, drink andbe merry because they're in and cannot lose their salvation. I wonder how many souls have been led down this path of destruction?
Katie
Then your issue is NOT choosing God . . . it is choosing a lifestyle and rejecting the false "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . which is a good thing. God is NOT a choice. We either truly believe or we do not. If we have to choose . . . we do not truly believe anything.
That would be fine, if you didn't promote what you believe you know his way is.
While you critisize the "ur camp" you're doing the same thing. You can't actually believe God will save all mankind or you wouldn't make such statements about others that believe differently than you.
If you let God be God, then it is possible the UR camp is correct. But you do not believe they are and announce as such.
It is because you believe God to be a certain way and thats what you tell others. The "ur camp" is no different.
I think as humans seeking the truth we have every right to think that God wouldn't do something.
Would God murder you in cold Blood? Well, I guess he could, let God be God. But we both believe God is not a murderer, so we can say that we don't believe God would do such a thing.
I hope you see my point and it is well taken as this was not personal against you, just emphasizing a point to you.
Moderator cut: deleteI believe in what the Bible teaches. It may seem it contradicts itself but it does not. If believers can realize the totality of the sovereignty of God, and revere Him as such, any questions that are not specifically addressed will just need to wait until we meet Him face to face.
See, I have both lost a child and have relatives that were not saved (now dead) and are not saved today. All I could/can do is love them in this life time and be content with that. Jesus tells us we must love Him more than anyone or anything else. I think we all need to keep that in mind.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-09-2011 at 05:12 PM..
Reason: off topic
Moderator cut: orphanedI believe in what the Bible teaches. It may seem it contradicts itself but it does not. If believers can realize the totality of the sovereignty of God, and revere Him as such, any questions that are not specifically addressed will just need to wait until we meet Him face to face.
See, I have both lost a child and have relatives that were not saved (now dead) and are not saved today. All I could/can do is love them in this life time and be content with that. Jesus tells us we must love Him more than anyone or anything else. I think we all need to keep that in mind.
You believe this saved33 because you believe God gave us a bible instead of Christ. You say Jesus told us to love him more than anything else, we do this by loving our neighbor as ourselves, this is what the Sermon on the mount was all about. Loving Jesus is not having an undying resolve to believe the bible is the word of God.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-09-2011 at 05:18 PM..
In a very real sense, those who hear the Gospel and believe, have already been made alive. Those who do not believe the Gospel, have not been made alive.
I believe this as well. One could not know or obey God if the person was yet to be made alive to obey.
Reminds me of Simon the Sorcerer, who was noted as being a believer and had been baptized, yet he wanted to buy the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Peter told him "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.” But Simon instead asked Peter to do the praying for him. I find it hard to believe Simon had been made alive -- from saying he believed, or by his baptism -- while stating such things.
Reminds me too of the disciples (also believers) whom Jesus rebuked, those disciples who wanted to bring down fire upon unbelievers:
Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
I have come to the conclusion that you do not read other people's posts, or you only read what you personally agree with.
I posted in great detail about predestination. I've posted it several times to YOU in particular, but I noticed you never responded.
The predestined that are spoken about in Ephesians are those who are in Christ. Those who are in Christ (the saved, the church) are those who were predestined, chosen before the foundation of the world.
You have blinded yourself to this fact.
Nowhere do the scriptures say that some individuals are chosen for salvation and others for damnation.
Katie
Katie
Yes, I agree that many misinterpret what predestination means. God foreknows those who will be saved and those who won't but that is not what predistination means. He seeks to rescue in earnest all who are lost from their fate even though He has foreknowledge that they will reject. He makes honest attempts to save and therefore He can not be accused of being unjust which is impossible for Him to be. Some just resist the attempt at rescue and God proves He is just by His attempts for all to see.
Paul is witness and so are we to Gods fair attempts to save all:
ACTS 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you:but seeing you put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Would it affect your walk with God if He did send babies/little children to hell?
It certainly would make me view Him in a different light. I don't believe I could worship a God who would act in such a cruel, heartless way towards His own children. If God truly is "love," He would not condemn an innocent child to an eternity of torture.
Quote:
Us deciding what should be best is dangerous ground to walk on.
Well, then perhaps you need to stop.
Quote:
Personally, I feel we need to let God be God and let Him be the sovereign judge, but know and believe His way is just.
I don't think any of us in in a position to be able to keep Him from being God, even if we wanted to. Of course His way is just. Sending babies to Hell isn't.
Would it affect your walk with God if He did send babies/little children to hell? This kind of pondering is no different than the ponderings in the UR camp. They cannot believe God would send unbelievers to hell...Us deciding what should be best is dangerous ground to walk on.
Personally, I feel we need to let God be God and let Him be the sovereign judge, but know and believe His way is just.
saved33 - Would you share with us why you believe (if you do) the concept of divine reprobation (be it the infralapsarian or supralapsarian position, etc.), and provide scriptural support for your views? It's a topic that is seldom discussed on this forum.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
