Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You bet I do. And so did Jesus. Babies are pure, innocent, and trusting, and that's how Jesus wants us to be. I agree with you that Jesus said we must have the faith of a little child, but no matter how you spin it, He said, "For of such is the kindom of heaven." Jesus said the kingdom of God belongs to children....
Yes, that Faith that a child has in the everyday things they are told...He was speaking of their ability to believe, not their innocence and purity
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl
You say babies are born with sin yet they go to heaven if they die. How can this be if sin separates us from God?
So, it is obvious that they don't...No matter how much we want to believe otherwise...
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl
Also has it occured to you why Jesus says we must be born again? Doesn't that tell you you must be like an innocent child? Clean, pure?
Katie
Born from above...Not again...However, He did not mention that in conjunction with children...Children are not clean and pure...The Birth from above IS the regeneration of Hawyaw on the spirit...So, if Hawyaw must regenerate one, what was their initial state?...
Yes Bama, but you believe everyone is going to heaven right? Universalist?
You missed a very important point. Those who are made alive are those who are IN CHRIST. There's only one way to get in Christ and that is through baptism.
Katie
No. it is not...It is through regeneration witch results in Faith...Baptism has nothing to do with that...
There is a big difference in saying we are born with a sinful nature and we are born with sin. Sin is something we choose to do. Babies are not capable of knowing right from wrong. They cannot reason. Babies have no sin and we know they don't inherit sin (Ezekiel 18:20). Therefore, they are innocent.
We may be born with the propensity to sin, but that does not mean we are incapable or so totally depraved that we cannot choose God. That's the point of the thread.
Kate
We are born spiritually dead...And Ezekiel is speaking of each person is responible for his own sin...
I believe the scriptures proclaim universalism. Those IN Christ shall be made alive. Here is what the text says:
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
The word made alive is in the Greek future tense. A very important concept here. Not all are alive in Christ now. However, the text says ALL shall be made alive, future tense.
And, everything, repeat: everything, has been created IN Christ:
Col 1:16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
All things were created IN Christ, and, IN Christ all things will be made alive (future tense).
That is why I believe all infants, children, and everyone else for that matter, will ultimately, in the end, when all is said and done, be alive in Christ, to the glory of God.
Why is this so difficult to believe? The text clearly states it to be so.
It may be that it is speaking of those that are predestined...All of those shall be saved...Like, All Israel will be saved?...
Richard, I apologize if you've already explained your belief with respect to the fate of little babies who die, but would you mind doing so again? Let's say a week-old baby died... What do you believe would happen to that child's soul, and why?
Yes Bama, but you believe everyone is going to heaven right? Universalist?
You missed a very important point. Those who are made alive are those who are IN CHRIST. There's only one way to get in Christ and that is through baptism.
Katie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
No. it is not...It is through regeneration witch results in Faith...Baptism has nothing to do with that...
You are both wrong. It has nothing to do with US or anything we DO!!! It has only to do with what Christ HAS DONE, period. Our sanctification is in our hands and that is achieved by "love of God and each other" daily. We will reap what we sow and account for every unloving thought and act that we fail to repent of while alive. Christ is IN ALL OF US as His Holy Spirit within our consciousness. We just need to LISTEN and follow His guidance to what God has "written in our hearts."
Prairie,
Again, I appreciate your response but respectfully disagree with you. The only thing you said that I wholeheatedly agree with is your very last sentence. We are born anew and made alive by the power of the Holy Spirit. I think we would agree that this happens when we are baptized into Christ.
I can agree that we are born with the propensity to sin. But we are not born with sin. Big difference. I believe babies are innocent. They do not inherit sin (Ez. 18:20).
Those who are said to be predestined are those who are in Christ. The Bible doesn't teach that some are predestined to heaven and others to eternal damnation. This would make God a respecter of persons. It would also make God unfair and unjust.
You say we have no free will. Then why is the offer for the person who is thirsty to come made to whosoever will? Over and over we see people making the choice to follow Jesus.
Katie
Did they make a genuine Choice or did they just follow the crowd of those that did?...One cannot be thirsty unless Hawyaw makes them thirsty...The bible DOES teach that there are those predestined to heaven or hell...
Regarding the timing of when things happen...it's important to understand the order that Jesus gives them, here:
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
What is most remarkable about this scripture is that the Greek verbs translated as "heareth" and "believeth" are in the Greek present tense. So is the word "hath" with regards to everlasting life.
The word "passed", however, is in the Greek perfect tense, a past tense event, all ready completed.
The one believing has already passed into life. Passing into life is not a future event waiting to happen as a result of hearing and believing. Passing into life (regeneration if you will) actually proceeds the hearing and believing. Hearing and believing are the results, or perhaps the evidence, of having already passed from death to life.
In a very real sense, those who hear the Gospel and believe, have already been made alive. Those who do not believe the Gospel, have not been made alive.
In a very real sense, those who hear the Gospel and believe, have already been made alive. Those who do not believe the Gospel, have not been made alive.
I believe this as well. One could not know or obey God if the person was yet to be made alive to obey.
Reminds me of Simon the Sorcerer, who was noted as being a believer and had been baptized, yet he wanted to buy the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Peter told him "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.” But Simon instead asked Peter to do the praying for him. I find it hard to believe Simon had been made alive -- from saying he believed, or by his baptism -- while stating such things.
No Bama, what you can't believe is that I don't believe in universalism. I don't believe everyone is going to heaven, and quite frankly, I don't know how anyone can read a Bible and come up with such a doctrine.
Jesus died for all men. But we have a choice to accept or reject His sacrifice.
Now I can't believe you can't see that Bama.
Kmg
Jeshua came only for those of the House of Israel...Those are the LOST He speaks of...
We are incapable of CHOOSING God . . . but it has nothing to do with being depraved. We cannot CHOOSE to believe in God or Christ or anything else we TRULY BELIEVE. If we need to choose . . . we do not really believe in ANY of the alternatives. TRUE belief is NOT a choice.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
