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Katz, we can prove that babies are born pure and innocent with the Bible. The problem is that people don't want to accept the scriptures we provide. Look at all the scriptures we've already given, and it doesn't seem to matter. Even if you added scriptures from your book of Mormon, it wouldn't matter. People dig in their heels, harden their hearts. No amount of proof will matter to them.
I just can't believe that anyone could ever look at a little baby and think that they would go to hell if they died.
Katie
Katie, scriptural truth isn't about how cute and cuddly a baby is. Under the theology of eternal separation from God, there is no scriptural exception for a baby that dies not knowing or understanding Jesus as Lord. People have to appeal to emotion and inference to try to get around it.
That is why the judgment of God falls upon every human being whether it be a fetus or you and I or someone who lives to be over 100.
The spirit of many religious beliefs has made the word "judgment" out to be a word we think is bad. I mean, how could God Judge a cute little cuddly baby? Well He does, but what do you think that judgment will be about?
Christians really need to learn and believe, rather than pay lip service to, a God that is righteous. His judgment is according to the lives we have led. Being in the hands of the living God is the best place anyone can be, even a cute little cuddly baby.
JAA, I was off the forum for a time. I will go back and read your post. I'll respond as soon as I get a chance, which probably won't be until later today. Thanks for the reminder.
Katie
OK, Katie. But I wasn't being pushy I just wanted to say that I may have at least addressed some of what you had asked.
My mind is always open to learning, and my heart is not hardened to the point where I'm not willing to take a fresh look at something. Also, I have no problem with saying I am wrong.
I've had lots of practice being married to the same man for forty years.
I posted something several days ago that I thought might have addressed some of the questions you had before.
This has been an active thread, so I suspect I may have missed some of what has been shared. I referred to Ephesians 2:1 and Colossians 2:13 to show how the Bible declares man "dead in trespasses and sins", and how God makes alive from that dead state those whom He saves.
This cannot require any action on our part. We are dead, God "quickens" us, or makes us "alive". I alluded to the account in John 11 regarding the raising of Lazarus. Lazarus had been dead. Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come forth". How could a dead man respond to a call to come forth? It could only be that Christ had qualified him to come. It serves as a beautiful picture of how God qualifies, or enables" a "dead" sinner to come to Christ.
This ties in nicely with what the Bible teaches about God decalring that He will give a "new" heart and a new spirit, and how He "will take away the stony heart out of [your] flesh, and I will give [you] an heart of flesh" (Ezek 36:26).
This makes sense, as God tells us in Jeremiah 17:9, that "the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked". Outside of this work of God on our behalf, we remain with a "wicked" heart that will not "seek after God".
Now this, in turn, brings us to 1 Corinthians 2:14, where we read, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"......hence, the need for God to put His Spirit within us.
We can see here how a number of Scriptures harmonize in teaching us what I believe is biblically-based truth. This doesn't give us any real basis for thinking that we choose to believe on Christ of our own free will. Rather, God has done all the work necessary for us to believe on Christ unto salvation. If God didn't act in this way, no one would ever believe, as God has alteady told us that we do not possess this capability by nature.
God had intended to save a people for Himself. If He hadn't acted or intervened sovereignly to cause this to happen, there could be no kingdom of God; as man would never come of himself to trust in Christ for salvation as the Bible declares is necessary.
But God is faithful, and we praise Him and thank Him for His salvation in Christ.
Hi JAA,
I went through the posts, and I didn't see any from you that I didn't respond to. If there is something I missed, please let me know.
You cited Ephesians 2:1 and Colossians 2:13 and correctly stated " to show how the Bible declares man "dead in trespasses and sins", and how God makes alive from that dead state those whom He saves."
I completely agree with you about these two verses. Man is dead in sin, and God makes him alive. We are saved by grace through faith. No arguments from me on this point.
I disagree with you that it requires no action on our part. I believe it does. Taking the water of life involves an action on our part. God has given us free will to accept or reject Him. (Rev. 22:17) He invites us to "come."
"17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
If Rev. 22:17 does not mean whosoever will can take the water of life freely, then what does it mean? I would like to hear your explanation of this verse.
I don't believe you can compare the raising of Lazarus from the dead with salvation. Being made alive in Christ is not the same. The Bible doesn't make this comparison, and neither should you. Jesus raised Lazarus for a reason, the same reason as He did all of His other miracles. It was so the people would believe He was who He said He was. They would know He was the Son of God. Lazarus has nothing whatsoever to do with our salvation and how we receive it.
I agree that God gives us a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:26) when we are born again, when we are baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27, John 3:5) We do not disagree on this point.
You keep saying that man doesn't have the free will to choose God, yet Rev. 22:17 disagrees with you. "Whosoever will..."
I do not disagree with you that we are all called through the gospel. So yes, in that way, God does choose us. But it is up to us to accept or reject Him.
Please show me a scripture that says we are totally incapable of choosing God.
Would it affect your walk with God if He did send babies/little children to hell? This kind of pondering is no different than the ponderings in the UR camp. They cannot believe God would send unbelievers to hell...Us deciding what should be best is dangerous ground to walk on.
Personally, I feel we need to let God be God and let Him be the sovereign judge, but know and believe His way is just.
Would it affect your walk with God if He did send babies/little children to hell? This kind of pondering is no different than the ponderings in the UR camp. They cannot believe God would send unbelievers to hell...Us deciding what should be best is dangerous ground to walk on.
If it would NOT affect your walk with God you are learning nothing about distinguishing Good from Evil . . . which is the only path to spiritual maturity.
Quote:
Personally, I feel we need to let God be God and let Him be the sovereign judge, but know and believe His way is just.
Nonsense. We are God's children maturing to be "perfect"(means "mature" in the scriptures) as God is "perfect". . . NOT His "Pets" in obedience training (or mindless robots).
Please show me a scripture that says we are totally incapable of choosing God.
Katie
Tell me, Katie . . . why would you have to choose IF you TRULY BELIEVED in God???? I choose NONE of the things I TRULY BELIEVE. There simply are no other viable options. Please explain why you would need scripture to say you cannot choose God?
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I just wanted to say that I may have at least addressed some of what you had asked.
