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It has been proven to no end. There are over 200 verses which promise eternal life to believers, and your view contradicts them all. Eternal life is not eternal if it can be taken away or lost.
See...You can't, but I already knew you wouldn't be able to do so.
You have NOT! provided ONE SINGLE SOLITARY VERSE that proves ETERNAL LIFE CANNOT BE L -O - S - T ! ! !
YOU CAN'T, BECAUSE IT IS A LIE FROM THE PIT OF HELL, and contradicts God's word throughout!!!
Passages such as Ezekiel 18:24,26 mentioned by the poster in post #59 are referring to temporal punishment. Physical death. The death penalty. They are not a reference to eternal punishment. Under the Mosaic law, the death penalty was imposed for various trangressions of the law. No loss of eternal salvation for the believer is in view.
Can you provide us the reference in scripture that indictates there is this division in punshment?
I do not mean a list of scriptures that you interpret being differing punishments, I mean the scriptures that actually define these differing pushiments and the thresholds or boundries between.
Passages such as Ezekiel 18:24,26 mentioned by the poster in post #59 are referring to temporal punishment. Physical death. The death penalty. They are not a reference to eternal punishment. Under the Mosaic law, the death penalty was imposed for various trangressions of the law. No loss of eternal salvation for the believer is in view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWW1962
Can you provide us the reference in scripture that indictates there is this division in punshment?
I do not mean a list of scriptures that you interpret being differing punishments, I mean the scriptures that actually define these differing pushiments and the thresholds or boundries between.
Thanks
Capital punishment was a part of the Mosaic law. Do your own research.
John 3:16 and over 200 other verses prove you wrong.
LOL!...
...............you're making this pretty easy for me Finn.........
First of all, one will not receive eternal life unless they are born-again - period....
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Then, once one is a repentant, born-again, born of God, child of God...and then they turn back to their sins like a dog returns to his vomit, there is no more forgiveness for their sins...it's like spitting in the precious face of Jesus Christ. ...
Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
..."in the day" means, it takes only ONE! (1) willfull sin to abolish everything done righteously by the "Once born-again" Now wicked sinner.
Ezekiel "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
Ezekiel 33:18 If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it.
Now to help you understand John 3:16...
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM...SHOULD NOT PERISH (SOUNDS LIKE THEY WILL PERISH (BURN TO ASHES) IF THEY DO NOT BELIEVE) BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF THEY FALL AWAY:
Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
..."in the day" means, it takes only ONE! (1) willfull sin to abolish everything done righteously by the "Once born-again" Now wicked sinner.
Ezekiel "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
Ezekiel 33:18 If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it.
WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT GET FINN...?...YOU ARE BLIND AND DEAF.
Last edited by Verna Perry; 12-03-2011 at 12:45 PM..
Prove your point with information not condemnation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
John 3:16 and over 200 other verses prove you wrong.
LOL, I have yet to see even one that actually supports OSAS. If you can find ONE that actually says it, I would like to examine it in detail with you.
Each presentation so far has been an interpretation of the "hidden" meaning, which requires a prior acceptance ot the belief for it to be seen. (bias) There has not been even ONE demonstration of the actual EXPLICT message in the scriptures.
You are 100% correct when you say we cannot "see" it, because we do not share in your bias. We do not have OSAS glasses to interpret scripture.
Hebrews 6:1-8 disproves OSAS. If you take the time to carefully listen to Dr Dean, you will see that there is no scriptural support to say salvation cannot be lost. He is explaining the verses and talking about the debased condition of those who have fallen away, and then just spuriously inserts, "but their salvation will not be lost". It explaining that condition he also contradicts himself and says there is a loss of grace in that state. It is clear throughout the entire presentation that it is an OSAS believer explaining what Hebrews 6:1-8 means for other OSAS believers. He does NOT present any lucid explanation why Hebrews 6:1-8 does demonstrate salvation cannot be lost. Any unbiased critical analysis of his presentation will conclude he provided no evidence to support his suprious injections of "but thier salvation cannot be lost"
He is just another of many theologians who are tickling the ears of those who have already accepted men's doctrines.
PLEASE, quote us a scripture and show us where it explicitly says "salvation cannot be lost"
Here is one that says it can!
Galatians 5:4
Those of you who are trying to be justified by the law have been cut off from the Messiah. You have fallen away from grace. (ISV)
You do not need to interpret those words do you?
Do you think Paul and the holy spirit are inarticulate?
It is not clear to you?
Do the interpretations of 200 verses that do NOT explicitly state salvation cannot be lost invalidate the scrptures that EXPLICITLY say it can?
Please give us ANY scripture that EXPLICITLY says salvation cannot be lost!
For those who missed what for now is post #37, pending the removal of any more posts, I refer you to Dr. Deans doctrinal classes concerning Hebrews 6:1-8, in which he explains very clearly and simply that the passage is not a warning of the believer being able to lose his salvation, but is a warning for the believer not to fall from grace into legalism.
Go to the link above, locate and listen to the following audio or video lessons.
Hebrews 061b
Danger: Falling Away - Part 1. Hebrews 6:2-7. August 3, 2006
Hebrews 062b
Danger: Falling Away - Part 2. Hebrews 6:2-4. August 10, 2006
Hebrews 063b
How to be a Productive Believer. Hebrews 6:6-8. August 17, 2006
Hebrews 064b
Spiritual Fruit. Hebrews 6:7-8. August 24, 2006
Hebrews 065b
Abiding in Christ. Hebrews 6:7-8, John 15:1-3. August 31, 2006
If you wish, click on all 217 lessons which covers the entirety of the book of Hebrews.
Though this thread has turned into a debate as these threads always do, my purpose for starting this thread was not to debate, but to provide the information in the original post in the form of the publication by Pastor Robert Mclaughlin concerning the fact that the believer absolutely cannot lose or walk away from his salvation. I then later included Dr. Deans audio classes.
I realize that those who are entrenched in legalism will not likely believe what these doctrinally oriented pastors have to say since legalists always attack the principle of grace. But if you are someone who desires the truth and who is simply confused as to what the Bible says about the believers eternal security, the information from these two pastor/teachers will clear up the confusion.
Last edited by Michael Way; 12-03-2011 at 12:53 PM..
Capital punishment was a part of the Mosaic law. Do your own research.
As usual you try to side step the question.
It is humorous you claim to be a teacher but cannot answer questions.
Maybe you do not understand the question as your reply seems to indicate.
Can you provide us the reference in scripture that indicates there is this division in punishment?
I do not mean a list of scriptures that you interpret being differing punishments, I mean the scriptures that actually define these differing punishments and the thresholds or boundaries between.
I can see how that was to general, but i wanted to ensure you had the latitude to answer any way you wanted. the focus was intended to learn more about the temporal punishment you cited.
I will even be more direct if that helps. Where does the Bible talk about temporal punishment? What is the Greek phase repeatedly used to communicate "temporal punishment". Where does it outline the specific failings to warrant temporal punishment verses other punishments?
Temporal punishment is a theology from Catholicism and most commonly related to the belief in purgatory. It has been integrated into the language of theology but it is not scriptural. I cannot find one scriptural reference.
For those who missed what for now is post #44, pending the removal of any more posts, I refer you to Dr. Deans doctrinal classes concerning Hebrews 6:1-8, in which he explains very clearly and simply that the passage is not a warning of the believer being able to lose his salvation, but is a warning for the believer not to fall from grace into legalism.
Go to the link above, locate and listen to the following audio or video lessons.
Hebrews 061b
Danger: Falling Away - Part 1. Hebrews 6:2-7. August 3, 2006
Hebrews 062b
Danger: Falling Away - Part 2. Hebrews 6:2-4. August 10, 2006
Hebrews 063b
How to be a Productive Believer. Hebrews 6:6-8. August 17, 2006
Hebrews 064b
Spiritual Fruit. Hebrews 6:7-8. August 24, 2006
Hebrews 065b
Abiding in Christ. Hebrews 6:7-8, John 15:1-3. August 31, 2006
If you wish, click on all 217 lessons which covers the entirety of the book of Hebrews.
Though this thread has turned into a debate as these threads always do, my purpose for starting this thread was not to debate, but to provide the information in the original post in the form of the publication by Pastor Robert Mclaughlin concerning the fact that the believer absolutely cannot lose or walk away from his salvation. I then later included Dr. Deans audio classes.
I realize that those who are entrenched in legalism will not likely believe what these doctrinally oriented pastors have to say since legalists always attack the principle of grace. But if you are someone who desires the truth and who is simply confused as to what the Bible says about the believers eternal security, the information from these two pastor/teachers will clear up the confusion.
...oh yea...the "DEANBIBLE!",...like I've been saying....
For those who missed what for now is post #44, pending the removal of any more posts, I refer you to Dr. Deans doctrinal classes concerning Hebrews 6:1-8, in which he explains very clearly and simply that the passage is not a warning of the believer being able to lose his salvation, but is a warning for the believer not to fall from grace into legalism.
Go to the link above, locate and listen to the following audio or video lessons.
Hebrews 061b
Danger: Falling Away - Part 1. Hebrews 6:2-7. August 3, 2006
Hebrews 062b
Danger: Falling Away - Part 2. Hebrews 6:2-4. August 10, 2006
Hebrews 063b
How to be a Productive Believer. Hebrews 6:6-8. August 17, 2006
Hebrews 064b
Spiritual Fruit. Hebrews 6:7-8. August 24, 2006
Hebrews 065b
Abiding in Christ. Hebrews 6:7-8, John 15:1-3. August 31, 2006
If you wish, click on all 217 lessons which covers the entirety of the book of Hebrews.
Though this thread has turned into a debate as these threads always do, my purpose for starting this thread was not to debate, but to provide the information in the original post in the form of the publication by Pastor Robert Mclaughlin concerning the fact that the believer absolutely cannot lose or walk away from his salvation. I then later included Dr. Deans audio classes.
I realize that those who are entrenched in legalism will not likely believe what these doctrinally oriented pastors have to say since legalists always attack the principle of grace. But if you are someone who desires the truth and who is simply confused as to what the Bible says about the believers eternal security, the information from these two pastor/teachers will clear up the confusion.
For any who take Mike555 up on the offer to listen to these presentations, please bring back to the thread examples from those presentations that you feel offer scriptural support that salvation cannot be lost.
I have listened to them and found them lacking in that regard. It seems to be geared to tickle the ears of those who already believe in OSAS rather then an examination of the scriptures to demonstrate that salvation cannot be lost.
Points to look for...when he states "but their salvation cannot be lost" has he really been presenting information to support that, or is he just throwing that caveat in while identifying the state of those who have "fallen away"
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Prove your point with information not condemnation
